Season 4, Episode 17: Why depression changes the way we think
Depression can affect much more than our mood. It can change the way we see ourselves, other people and the world around us, making it harder to recognize possibilities, find motivation or imagine that things could get better.
In this episode of Living Fully, Marcus Cheung, Registered Social Worker and Associate Director at Calgary Counselling Centre, talks about the connection between depression and our thoughts. He discusses the common thinking patterns that can keep people feeling stuck, as well as how depression can contribute to isolation and affect our relationships and everyday lives.
If you’ve been wondering how you’re doing, take a few minutes to check in with yourself. Visit areyoufeelingok.com from October 5-11 to take the free, anonymous depression screening quiz.
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Katherine Hurtig
Welcome to Living Fully. Each episode is a chance to talk about mental health in a way that's simple, honest, and helpful. We'll share stories, tips, and tools to help you feel supported and feel your best. I'm your host, Katherine Hurtig. Each October, Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta mark National Depression Screening Day by offering a free, confidential online depression screening quiz at areyoufeelingOK.com.
This year, it's available from October 5-11, giving anyone the opportunity to take a few minutes to check in with their mental health. Today, we're talking about how depression can change the way we think. Depression isn't just about feeling sad. It can affect how we see ourselves, how we interpret the people and situations around us, and even what we believe is possible for our future.
This is also a very personal episode for me. I've experienced depression myself, and throughout this conversation, I'll share some of what I went through and what helped me along the way. My experience won't be the same as everyone else's, but I hope it helps put some of the things we're talking about into context.
Joining me is Marcus Cheung, Associate Director of Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta, and a registered social worker. We're going to explore why depression can leave people feeling stuck, how it shapes our thinking, and why counselling can help people begin to see new possibilities again.
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Today, we're talking about depression, and more specifically, how it kind of changes how we think about ourselves and the world around us. I'm with Marcus Cheung. Thanks for being here.
Marcus Cheung
My pleasure.
Katherine Hurtig
It's your first time on the podcast.
Marcus Cheung
Yeah.
Katherine Hurtig
Thank you so much. I'm really excited to have you. Tell our listeners a bit about yourself.
Marcus Cheung
Well, my name is Marcus. I am currently a registered social worker here in Alberta. I'm also the associate director of the Calgary Counselling Centre.
Katherine Hurtig
Excellent. Marcus, when most people think about depression, we picture someone who's constantly sad, but what does depression actually loOK like?
Marcus Cheung
That's a very good question, Katherine. I think depression, it's a mental health disorder, obviously. It has an ability to affect a lot of things in our life. When people think about depression, people think about, ‘Well, people being sad.’ But, you know, we know there's a lot more than just that facial expression.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
Or behind that facial expression of being sad, there's a lot going on in this person's thinking style that's also affecting their emotions. That's also affecting the way they behave. There's a chain of things going on, actually, behind that sad face that people don't often recognize.
Katherine Hurtig
Can depression change the way we see ourselves, other people, the world around us, that kind of thing?
Marcus Cheung
Definitely. One of the things that depression does really well, it has an unusual ability to change the way we think. If you think about your thinking as a spectrum, and on the right side there's positive, and on the left side there's negative, and in the middle there's neutral. Under normal circumstances, people would be able to think on that spectrum.
Katherine Hurtig
OK.
Marcus Cheung
Right? From the negative, to the neutral, to the positive, and then vice versa. People who struggle with depression tend to have a hard time moving on that spectrum, in which what we're talking about, is a lot of times their thinking patterns are quite stuck. They're really struggling with a lot of what we call unhealthy or negative thinking patterns. It does affect the way they perceive different things in front of them. So, we're talking about events, how they perceive people, how they perceive their current or past experiences, how they project in their future. These are some of the things that people do often perceive. But the other thing is how they also see themselves as well. they project in their future. These are some of the things that people do often perceive. But the other thing is how they also see themselves as well.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
And that's really, that's a big one that, you know, in counselling often we do try to explore, and we do try to target. It's the way of how people perceive themselves.
Katherine Hurtig
And I think, I mean, unless you've experienced it, people don't realize that depression is more than an emotion. What are some of maybe the less obvious mental or cognitive symptoms that people might experience?
Marcus Cheung
Yeah. Katherine, it's not always visible to others when people are depressed. I mean, some are more visible than others. The less visible symptoms I would say, for example. And what we usually tell people is that depression manifests itself in so many different ways, depending on circumstances, who you are, your personality. Let's take, for example, anger. Some people, when they're depressed, they don't act depressed.
Katherine Hurtig
OK.
Marcus Cheung
They act angry.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
And they're irritable. They're agitated. In the eyes of others, perhaps this person is an angry person, but nobody really knows. In fact, this person might not necessarily be angry. What they're struggling with is a bunch of sadness.
Katherine Hurtig
Right.
Marcus Cheung
That they can't really express in a healthy way.
Katherine Hurtig
That's not the stereotypical, like, what you would think how depression would come out.
Marcus Cheung
No, but because the number one thing that people associate depression is sadness. This person must be really, really sad. And you know, a lot of times that's the core of it.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
But again, depression can manifest itself in very different ways. It can be anger. It can turn into hopelessness, ‘Nothing's sort of worthwhile.’ And then helplessness, ‘Nobody's ever going to help me, nothing's going to change.’ When people are really talking about those things, like, you know, when you're talking to them, you're listening to the content. But what they're really trying to tell you, essentially, are the patterns that we're trying to assess is this person's saying that, ‘Nothing's really going to change, nobody's ever going to help me.’ How depression sort of keeps people stuck is they don't see possibilities.
Katherine Hurtig
OK. In your work with clients, do people who are working through depression, do they feel like they become a different person? They really don’t feel like themselves?
Marcus Cheung
They do, because they act like a different person, right? A lot of times when people are depressed, they act in a way that, a lot of times, they think it's not so much like them. They used to be a lot more energetic. They used to be a lot more hopeful.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
They used to be a lot more optimistic.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
But again, you know, like I said, depression has an ability to take away those possibilities for you, right? And this is why when people struggle with depression, they entered into a series of what we called unhelpful thinking patterns.
Katherine Hurtig
OK.
Marcus Cheung
You know, they are not thinking in a way, perhaps, that is possibility oriented.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
You know, it's pretty narrow focused, it's pretty negative, and we know when people struggled to think that way, they also struggle to feel a certain way. Because there's obviously a correlation between—
Katherine Hurtig
Your thoughts and feelings.
Marcus Cheung
Your thinking and how you feel. And ultimately, what you do. So, when you talked about, yeah, ‘Why am I acting so different than before?’ That's probably the reason why.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. As you were describing that, that really brought me back to my own experiences. When I was going through depression, I thought just like that. I was like, ‘Well, I used to be so much more fun. Like, why can't I be as, you know, relaxed and chill as I used to be?’ Yeah, it's frustrating. Another aspect of depression, it can make even the smallest things, the smallest decisions, feel impossible. Just getting out of bed in the morning.
Marcus Cheung
Yeah.
Katherine Hurtig
Like, I can definitely relate to that, too. Why does it have that effect?
Marcus Cheung
Because one of the things that depression does unusually well: it takes away people's motivation.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
And where did that come from? When you think about you wake up, and then you have got this idea of why, ‘Why am I doing this? It's not worth it.’ Right? Going back to what I talked about, when people are feeling helpless, worthless, nothing's going to change. It does really take away the motivation to do something.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
‘Why should I wake up? Nothing's going to change anyways.’
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
‘Why bother?’ So, one of the things that you hear people who struggle with depression a lot is to say, ‘Why bother?’ That's sort of their mentality. But when you think about this, and if you're going about life using the ‘why bother’ attitude, nothing's really going to improve and nothing's going to change.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
And that really takes people into a further spiral. That's really the dangerous part of depression. They're not motivated.
Katherine Hurtig
When I was going through depression, I could recognize, logically, what I'm thinking isn't true all the time. But you still believe that. Why that duality? Like, you can see that these thoughts aren't accurate—
Marcus Cheung
Yeah.
Katherine Hurtig
But you still at your core believe them.
Marcus Cheung
Yeah. Katherine, it's almost like having a furry, annoying voice—
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah?
Marcus Cheung
That just doesn't know how to shut up, right? That's sort of the metaphor that I think a lot of the clients have been giving me.
Katherine Hurtig
OK.
Marcus Cheung
It's, you know, ‘I've been struggling with this. I know logically this is not right.’
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
‘But there's another part of me, and there's a voice within me, that tells me a lot of things differently, and I can't stop hearing those voices. I can't stop believing them.’ And this is why there's this contradiction of, ‘I know logically, but I don't feel that way.’
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
The only reason why people feel that way was a lot of those beliefs about themselves, and how they generate their beliefs towards others and events, has been heavily internalized.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
That message, or those messages or beliefs, have been there for a long time. People internalize them. People fixate on them. Internalization: it's one of the characteristics of depression.
Katherine Hurtig
Can you kind of explain that? Is it just our internal thoughts, how we kind of talk to ourselves?
Marcus Cheung
Internalization, it speaks to a way of how you attribute events and the causes of events. A lot of times when people struggle with depression, they attribute the causes of events onto themselves. Like, ‘It's me.’
Katherine Hurtig
Right.
Marcus Cheung
‘My life is bad because I am bad. My family is not going well because I don't know how to handle situations.’ So, we can sort of see people keep attributing the causes of events onto their own doing. Without realizing that perhaps a lot of times, it's really not so much about them.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
Families having conflict, maybe it really has nothing to do with you, right? Your life's not going well, life goes up and down, and maybe there are times that it's really not about you.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. There's so many factors.
Marcus Cheung
But internalization is what we sort of listen to all the time. It's when people are internal. Internal means when they are really attributing events onto their own without realizing that perhaps none of this is their responsibility. Then people tend to struggle, but they don't know that.
Katherine Hurtig
How do we kind of interrupt that thought process? How do we not change our minds, but start to think differently?
Marcus Cheung
It's really hard to do on your own.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
Like, you have been there, obviously.
Katherine Hurtig
I have. It is hard, yeah.
Marcus Cheung
Right? You know, and this is why we have counsellors here, to help people to identify some of those patterns and to give them skills. And I think the very first piece when it comes to any kind of change, Katherine, would be awareness.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, I guess so.
Marcus Cheung
You need to be aware that you have already entered a pattern like this. When I attribute events, when I explain what's going on around me, when I describe myself, I've already entered into a pattern that's not very healthy, which is it's always negative.
Katherine Hurtig
‘It's always my fault.’
Marcus Cheung
There's no alternatives of explaining things.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
It's always very narrow, very single-sided. There are not any other perspectives, and people are pretty stuck. So, the first thing is really awareness. And of course, through therapy, a good counsellor would be able to help you to identify some of those patterns.
Katherine Hurtig
OK.
Marcus Cheung
And to be able to sort of coach you and bring you out of those cycles.
Katherine Hurtig
OK. What's an example of a practice that you get clients to work on outside of the counselling room?
Marcus Cheung
There's a lot of them.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
And I think it really depends on context. Sometimes asking the client to simply record their thoughts, right?
Katherine Hurtig
OK.
Marcus Cheung
To write down their thoughts and then come back to the counselling room to actually go through them. A good counsellor would be able to loOK at those thoughts objectively and be able to identify the pattern behind those thoughts, being able to sort of challenge that a little bit, right? Or encourage the client to think about the same thing a little bit differently, ‘Is there a way to explain the same thing rather than using your single-sided depressive way of explaining it?’
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
‘What are the possibilities?’ For example. So, one of the things that we teach, Katherine, we teach clients how to generate possibilities in counselling.
Katherine Hurtig
That's a very beautiful way to think of it.
Marcus Cheung
Yeah.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
If you think about why people struggle with depression a lot, it's that because they've lost hope.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
The reason why they've lost hope is because they don't see the possibilities anymore.
Katherine Hurtig
Right.
Marcus Cheung
Again, going back to what I said, ‘Nothing's going to change. Everything's going to be the same. Nobody's ever going to help me. I can't help myself.’ When you struggle in a place like that, you can see it like it's really grim and dark, and it's not a good place to be.
Katherine Hurtig
No.
Marcus Cheung
But when you have somebody, like a counsellor, who's able to go in and be able to be honest, transparent, authentic, to be able to support the client, and helping them to understand it's not necessarily you that is the problem.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
It's the way of how we think, for some reason, became problematic. And there's a way to change that. It is possible.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
And it is a skill. So, we tell people that it is a skill, and that's what we do a lot of times in counselling, is we teach skill-based strategies.
Katherine Hurtig
OK.
Marcus Cheung
To help people to overcome their problems.
Katherine Hurtig
OK. And that is a hopeful way to conceptualize it, because it's like in anything in our lives, if it's unknown to us, if it's new, we are building that skill and it takes practice. Day one, it's going to feel impossible. But practicing that skill over and over, then you'll...
Marcus Cheung
It's repetition. How do you become good at something, for example?
Katherine Hurtig
Exactly.
Marcus Cheung
You want to be a good pianist. You wanted to play piano well? Well, you got to practice it multiple times a day.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
You wanted to make a good meal, same thing. You want to practice multiple times a day. If you want to be mentally healthy – And this is not very different than wanting to be physically healthy. If you want to be physically healthy, you go and exercise. You run—
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
And, you know, you cycle, whatever. Same thing in mental health. There's a lot of skills. Sometimes counselling can be very helpful.
Katherine Hurtig
That concept was life-changing for me when I was going through depression, that idea that I could change the way my brain worked. It was very, very hopeful. Like, OK.
Marcus Cheung
It does take a lot of commitment and hard work, though.
Katherine Hurtig
Oh, definitely.
Marcus Cheung
Like, changing is hard.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. It's not just like, ‘OK, I know this idea, now everything feels better.’ It is, ‘Oh, it's for sure work.’
Marcus Cheung
Yeah.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. And it's also, I mean, cliche, but it's true: it's not linear.
Marcus Cheung
No.
Katherine Hurtig
I would go through periods where it's like, ‘OK, I'm in counselling, I'm doing the work, I'm feeling better.’ And then I'd go through periods where I felt worse, and I'd be really hard on myself there, thinking like, ‘Oh, I've taken two steps back. I'm like, failing at counselling.’ Or that, you know, ‘I'm doing something wrong.’ But that's, now loOKing back, I can see that it's just part of the process sometimes.
Marcus Cheung
There are always setbacks.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
I mean, it's part of the journey.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
Counselling is meant to help you, and support you, and to walk you through that journey. But people oftentimes feel like that, right? You know, they progress, and then regress, and then progress.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. It happens.
Marcus Cheung
But ultimately, when people are persistent enough, and they keep reminding, and they keep implementing some of those strategies, they are going to feel a lot better.
Katherine Hurtig
What happened with me is, now it's not like bad days or periods of depression don't happen, it's that I know I have more tools and skills to be able to handle those days when they do.
Marcus Cheung
Exactly.
Katherine Hurtig
I don't feel ill-equipped to take that on anymore.
Marcus Cheung
Yeah.
Katherine Hurtig
How can these unhealthy thought patterns, how can they affect relationships, work, you know, all these other obligations and things we have to do?
Marcus Cheung
Well, it affects everything. Depression is a way to take away the possibilities that you used to feel that you had. It can ultimately affect the way of how you feel, and then ultimately how you show up in different places in your life every day. The way of how you go about forming relationships. It does affect your ability to fulfill multiple roles in your life. At work, same thing, because again, going back to the ‘why bother’ attitude. Going back to the ‘nothing's going to change’ attitude. Going back to the thinking that ‘I'm the one to blame’ attitude. Like, there's a lot of self-blame, and that's part of the condition. In depression, its people tend to blame themselves a lot.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
They're internal. They're also stable. Stable means, like what I said, ‘Nothing's going to change.’ That's what we mean by stable. And very global, and global means just generalize everything, ‘I am bad.’
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
‘I'm bad at everything.’ The matter of the fact is nobody's bad at everything, right?
Katherine Hurtig
Right.
Marcus Cheung
You're good at something, I'm good at something, and there's also something that I'm not good at that you're better at, which is fine. But people with depression, they don't often think that way. They generalize, and they globalize, and they say, ‘Well, if I am bad at this, then I must be bad at that as well.’ So, when you think about you have all of these sort of thinking patterns, and this is the way of how you operate, of course it does affect your ability to do a good job.
Katherine Hurtig
Kind of related, like this idea of being a burden. I remember that was huge for me when I was going through depression. I felt like such a burden to everyone. It's like, ‘I don't even want to try to hang out with anyone because, you know, I'm no fun at all.’ Is that common for people to feel?
Marcus Cheung
Of course that's common.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah?
Marcus Cheung
That's common. It's people's idea about, ‘I'm failing the expectations here.’
Katherine Hurtig
Right.
Marcus Cheung
‘I'm failing and I'm disappointing others here. It's OK that I struggle, but I also don't want people to sort of struggle with me.’
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
‘And that's why I do not want to reach out. I do not want to talk about it.’ And you can sort of see how that pushes people even further away from support. The idea that, ‘I don't want to be a burden.’ Or even sometimes, ‘I am a burden, I don't want to live anymore. I don't want people to be affected by my failure here.’ And that's very, very common among people who struggle with depression. But that also contributes to isolation.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
Right?
Katherine Hurtig
Which just... I mean, it's kind of a vicious cycle, hey?
Marcus Cheung
Oh, they're brothers: depression and isolation. They often go hand-in-hand. The more isolated you are, the more depressed you get. The more depressed you get, the more isolated away that you want to stay away from people. And then you become isolated, and it's very toxic.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
The moment when people become isolated, and that's one thing that we discourage all the time for our clients is, ‘No matter what you do, I don't want you to be isolated.’ There's research study that actually would quantify the damaging effects of isolation.
Katherine Hurtig
We've talked about it several times on the podcast.
Marcus Cheung
Perhaps, smOKing cigarettes, right?
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
You know, it's just the same thing.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
I mean, it does a lot to people.
Katherine Hurtig
That's scary.
Marcus Cheung
And that's scary. It's scary in a way because when people are isolated, they're not stimulated. They're not exposed to ideas. They're not exposed to the environment.
Katherine Hurtig
When you're in that, when you're isolated, when you're depressed, you only have your own ideas.
Marcus Cheung
Exactly.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
Exactly. So, you're already very stuck—
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
And then you isolate yourself so that no ideas could come in. Nobody could challenge you.
Katherine Hurtig
No other possibilities. Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
No other possibilities is going to be introduced. And you can see how people, like it... They're slowly moving into a dead end. And they don't know why. And this is why people who perhaps initially, they struggle with the slight feeling of depression, and then it got worse, and worse, and worse over the years, especially for people who don't get help. And that's concerning.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. What are some first steps that people can take if someone starts recognizing these thinking patterns in themselves? What's one thing that they could realistically do to begin doing differently?
Marcus Cheung
Yeah. I think my advice and my recommendation is you don't want to be afraid of it. It's a very common thing that happens to a lot of people.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
Everybody in their lifetime would experience moments of depression. It's a lot more common than most people think. It's not a complicated mental health disorder. It's highly treatable. It's easy to sort of resolve if you take the step and then you ask for help at the onset of depression.
Katherine Hurtig
OK.
Marcus Cheung
If you don't deal with it or if you sort of keep that to yourself...
Katherine Hurtig
It's harder to work through?
Marcus Cheung
Like what we said, it will get worse.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
It will get worse. As for any sort of mental health disorders or, you know, physical illnesses, the earlier you get treatment, the better it is. Number one thing is, again, not to be afraid of it, but simply recognizing. Again, we talked about possibilities a lot in this podcast, but even the possibility of perhaps I might actually be depressed.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
And perhaps I really have to make a commitment to do something about it. Because it's not just about you, and we don't live in isolation. We have people around us, you know, if you're a dad or a mom, you know, or if you're a kid, a coworker. It also affects people around you.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
People notice that. People notice that no matter how much you hide, and oftentimes people want to care, but they don't know how to.
Katherine Hurtig
Right.
Marcus Cheung
I guess these are the first two steps. It's, well, you don't want to be afraid of it. You want to become aware of it. And maybe you wanted to make a commitment to actually speak to somebody about it.
Katherine Hurtig
OK. How could counselling potentially help people change these ways of thinking? If you're unmotivated, if you're isolating because of depression, it seems like it would be such a challenge to start making changes. So, how do you work with clients in that way?
Marcus Cheung
Well, Katherine, I can ask you a counter question.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
The time when you're really, really sad—
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
And then you go about finally making the decision to talk to somebody about it. And imagine you have somebody who showed up in front of you while you're really sad, to pick you up at that moment. And to support you unconditionally, to listen to you non-judgmentally, and to tell you, ‘I get you. And I'm here for you. I understand what you mean. It's not easy, right? And you don't have to do this alone.’ Just imagine that experience. The experience of being seen, and heard, and understood by just a random stranger in your life.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. That right there is what I hope anyone listening takes away from this episode, is... Because that sounds easy. That's just very comforting.
Marcus Cheung
The help seeking process, if done correctly, it can offer a tremendous amount of healing effect in itself. We're not even talking about the therapy yet.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
We're talking about finally finding somebody who's willing to listen non-judgmentally, who toOK the time to listen to me, and who's telling me that things are going to be OK, that there's a way out. Even that alone, I mean, I'm reflecting on my experience both as a counsellor or even as a client in counselling previously. I mean, I think that experience alone is tremendously impactful and healing.
Katherine Hurtig
For sure. Like you said, we isolate ourselves, but it just overall feels isolating. When you're in that place, you feel like you're the only one. You feel weird, and different, and that you're the only one thinking and feeling the way you do. So yeah, to sit with someone who understands is really important.
Marcus Cheung
Yeah. And of course, I mean, a good counsellor is not there just to listen.
Katherine Hurtig
No.
Marcus Cheung
Right? I mean, they do a lot more than just listening.
Katherine Hurtig
Of course, yeah.
Marcus Cheung
Right? Professionally, I think counsellors are trained to assess, they're trained to evaluate, they're trained to understand listening beyond the content. We're trained to listen to the process. We're trained to listen to what's being said, but at the same time, what's not said. And sometimes it's the things that is not being said that, you know, matters more.
Katherine Hurtig
That's a great point to emphasize, is that it's not just talking to, like, a friend.
Marcus Cheung
It's not just like talking to a friend.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
You're talking to somebody who's professionally trained to understand and assess, and then being able to be honest and transparent, to give you the feedback, to let you know perhaps these are some of the gaps that the counsellor might be noticing. The counsellor being able to sort of give you an idea about your blind spot.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Marcus Cheung
Things that you know about yourself, but also things that you don't notice about yourself. That's also the other thing that I find how counselling can be very effective, is it can tell you things that perhaps you would not have even noticed about yourself on your own, and that is tremendously powerful.
Katherine Hurtig
Thank you so much, Marcus.
Marcus Cheung
You're welcome.
Katherine Hurtig
This has been an excellent conversation.
Marcus Cheung
Thank you.
Katherine Hurtig
From October 5-11, take the free confidential depression screening quiz at areyoufeelingOK.com. It's a simple way to check in on your mental health. It only takes a few minutes and can help point you toward the support you need. Brought to you by Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta.
You've been listening to Living Fully, a Calgary Counselling Centre podcast. Thank you for tuning in. This episode was produced by Layla Ruggles, Luiza Campos, Julianna Adair, Jenna Forbes, and by me, Katherine Hurtig. A special thanks to Marcus Cheung.
Tune in to our next episode on October 20. We'll be talking about how to get better at handling hard emotions.
Long Zhou
First step to emotional regulation is to be able to recognize your emotion, right? Understand how you feel. You want to be—
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, the awareness.
Long Zhou
Exactly. Be very specific. Often we hear from clients, you know, ‘How are you feeling?’ ‘I feel good. I feel bad.’ But that's very general, right?
Katherine Hurtig:
Yeah.
Long Zhou
What does it mean when you say you feel good? Do you mean you feel happy, you feel excited, you feel supported, right? When you say you feel bad, what does that mean? Do you mean you feel angry, you feel sad, you feel lonely? Right? So, the first step is to name the emotion in order to tame it.
Katherine Hurtig
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