Season 3, Episode 5: How Family Dynamics Can Impact Mental Health
The relationships we have with our families shape so much of who we are—from how we communicate to how we see ourselves and handle emotions. But when those relationships are challenging, they can take a toll on our mental well-being.
In this episode, social worker Shannon McKinnon joins us to talk about how family dynamics can impact mental health in both positive and difficult ways. She shares how to recognize when a family relationship might be affecting you, how to set boundaries without guilt, and how to have tough conversations in a way that feels right.
If you’re struggling with family relationships, Shannon also offers practical advice on building healthier dynamics, repairing strained connections, and finding support—even if your family isn’t able to provide it.
References:
Brackett, M. (2021). PERMISSION TO FEEL: Unlock the Power of Emotions to Help Yourself and Your Children Thrive.
Men’s Sheds Canada – Connection. camaraderie. community. (n.d.). https://mensshedscanada.ca/
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Katherine Hurtig
Welcome to Living Fully. Each episode is a chance to talk about mental health in a way that's simple, honest, and helpful. We'll share stories, tips, and tools to help you feel supported and feel your best. I'm your host, Katherine Hurtig. When we think about family, a lot of words might come to mind. Love, support, connection, but maybe also tension, stress, or even sadness. Families can be and let's be honest, a little complicated too. They play such a big role in our mental health, whether it's helping us through tough times or sometimes adding to the stress. In this episode, I'm chatting with social worker Shannon McKinnon about all the ways family relationships shape our well-being. We'll talk about setting healthy boundaries, dealing with tricky dynamics, and how families can support each other without overstepping. Shannon also shares some great tips for having those tough conversations about mental health and breaking down stigma together.
Today I'm here with a social worker, Shannon McKinnon. Hi Shannon.
Shannon McKinnon
Hey, how's it going?
Katherine Hurtig
Excellent. Thanks so much for being here today.
Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Katherine Hurtig
And yeah, we're going to talk about family. So how they influence our mental health and how we feel about ourselves and how those relationships can kind of support us through our own mental health and yeah, when we're going through hard times. So Shannon, You haven't been on the podcast before. Welcome.
Shannon McKinnon
I haven't. No, it's my very first time. I'm a little bit nervous and that's okay. That means, you know, I am going to try my best.
Katherine Hurtig
We're very excited to have you. Tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, your background and who you are.
Shannon McKinnon
Well, I have been in social work for the last 13 years in the kind of the clinical realm, the counselling realm. Love it. Love doing social work. It's my third career, so, you know, I think it'll be my final one. That's the plan.
Katherine Hurtig
What did you do before?Shannon McKinnon
I have a degree in visual arts.Katherine Hurtig
Okay.Shannon McKinnon
And I also have a psychology degree as well before I got my master's of social work. And they all come together. I really love actually combining them all.Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, I could see that. Yeah.Shannon McKinnon
They all complement each other really well.Katherine Hurtig
For sure.
Shannon McKinnonI got pretty lucky on my career path, I think, of choosing well.
Excellent. Well, I'm excited to pick your brain. That's a weird term.Shannon McKinnon
It is. It is. I'm sorry. It's like, are we doing neurosurgery? What are we doing? Fascinating.Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. All right. Family. How do the relationships we have with our family kind of shape our mental health?Shannon McKinnon
Well, it's our first learning environment, right? And so we learn through our family systems, through the behaviors we see and through the feelings that those behaviors and interactions engender in us. Growing up, you know, we might feel seen and heard and validated and loved and cared for. We might not. It depends on your family system. Yeah, it's our very first reference point for what healthy can be or could be or might be or might not be. Sometimes we have really good role models within our family for that—for mentorship, for mental wellness. And sometimes we don't, but we might not realize it until maybe we meet other people. And then we're like, oh, oh, your family is different. Oh, okay. So, you know, it's always interesting to get other viewpoints and other people's experiences of how they grew up, because there's always opportunity for learning and kind of acknowledging difference. And then maybe you learn you have more choices than just those that you have within your own family system.Katherine Hurtig
Right. Yeah. In terms of choices, what does that mean?Shannon McKinnon
I think different ways of dealing with conflict or dealing with emotions or interacting with each other. What does care look like? What does independence look like? All of those things we really learn within our first years within our family. Yeah, once you get to know more people and start growing and changing—and like, school is good for kiddos, right? So they get different frameworks from their friends. Extended family can be a really good barometer for other ways of being, you know, and friends as adults, right, as well. To be like, yeah, there's choices. We may not know what the choices are. So, right, in order to make a choice, you need to have options. And so if you haven't experienced the luxury of options, then choice about family or how you show up or how that is for your mental health might come later—and that's okay.Katherine Hurtig
So I'm thinking, you know, a listener that's an adult, they have a formed sense of self, let's say. What are some signs that a family relationship they have might be hurting their mental health?Shannon McKinnon
Well, I think it starts to show up in a number of ways. So paying attention to how your body is reacting. Are you grinding your teeth, for example, and you never ground your teeth before? That's like tension holding, right? Of not being able to speak your truth or be validated. And so those kinds of body cues—like, are you very jumpy and anxious? Do you not feel safe within that family relationship? Do you feel attacked or on the defensive? Paying attention to the body symptoms, right? Maybe like, yeah, lack of motivation. You know, if your self-concept is really affected by a negative family member or toxic kind of interaction, it might affect you in many ways—emotionally and physically. Yeah.Katherine Hurtig
And how would that negative relationship—how could it show up in other areas of your life?Shannon McKinnon
Well, maybe lack of confidence in trying to experience new things and gain confidence. Irritation or frustration or anger. Because if your basic needs aren't getting met in that relationship, then it's going to be hard to maybe meet the needs of other people, like extended family or friends or work colleagues. Yeah, maybe you're noticing a little bit of anger, a little edginess. You know, that could be an indicator and you're like, oh, what's going on here? Why? You know, but things build up, right? Things build up over time. So you have to really keep that in mind, I think. We are not infinitely patient or infinitely able to handle distressing or negative interactions. That's not an expectation that should be of anybody, right? We all have limitations.Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. So in your work, how can people go about dealing with difficult or toxic family relationships? What are some avenues or steps to take when that's the situation they're in?Shannon McKinnon
Mm hmm. Well, I think setting some boundaries. I know that sounds really simple. It's not, because boundaries are contextual. So they're contextual in the situation. They're not rigid; they should be flexible in terms of, you know, they are there to keep people at a distance sometimes, but they're also porous enough to let people in. So that's the thing about decision-making on who is helpful and positive. Even if someone can be helpful and positive and still be challenging to you—excellent. Then they're asking you to be a critical thinker. Okay, great. Right, so it's not always this like everything's shiny and wonderful. It's not the toxic positivity, right? Good relationships often come from conflicts that are resolved and talked through and figured out with each other. But setting those boundaries and outlining what acceptable behavior you're willing to receive—what are the guidelines? Tell people what you need, right? And maybe having a time frame on those. Like, hey, I'd love for us, in our next conversation, for this to shift a bit in this way. That way you're kind of laying out a plan for someone else and maybe making that process easier for them to change.Katherine Hurtig
Do you have any examples of maybe people you've worked with and a situation around a boundary they needed to set?Shannon McKinnon
Well, yeah. So I've had people with very complex family histories show up at, let's say, weddings or funerals. We know families come together for these events. And this person had been absent from the extended family for a while and so hadn't been in contact with a lot of these people at this event—and received some really unsolicited, direct kind of commentary on their relationship within their family of origin. That person really had no actual idea. And they just were pretty clear that that was a boundary. And they were like, so, yeah, you really actually have no knowledge of that. So really don't talk to me about that. And that was hard because you're at this group kind of situation and event and you don't want to be rude. However, you also want to be clear. Right. So are there ways to be clear without being hostile? And I think sometimes I help people get to those places by looking at their core values. And then those conversations become much more objective. And it's like, well, this is a core value I have of honesty or transparency or respect. And this is where I'm coming from to give you feedback that that is what I expect for myself within this interaction. So it takes kind of the onus off of the high emotion that might come. And it's just—it's an objective behavior in accordance with someone's values. So I try to do that. Work with people on boundaries often within family systems. Yeah. I find it helpful.Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. Cause I mean, I've had my own experiences, and I'm sure many people do. The idea of communicating boundaries with family—having that kind of conversation with anyone doesn't feel too comfortable. But with family, it might be even more—I don't know if tense is the right word—but it's just different because it's family.Shannon McKinnon
Well, there's more history there. There's more baggage. You have maybe more at stake. You have maybe more riding on that conversation. Yeah. Families are complex. I think fascinating. Yes.Katherine Hurtig
So for someone who doesn't have a lot of experience speaking their mind or speaking up about the boundaries they want to uphold, how do you work with them to safely practice that or to get more confident?Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, we do practice and we do role play and we do what I call social scripting.Katherine Hurtig
Okay.Shannon McKinnon
And I'm like, hey, let's write down what you think you would like. And then let's see how that delivery is actually if you say it. Like, does it feel authentic? Can you actually say that with confidence? Or do we need to adjust it? Right? That helps people a lot.Katherine Hurtig
Just kind of planning out what they're going to say.Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, planning out what they're going to say. And, you know, in the moment, our brains are in the anxiety space. And maybe that's not going to be perfect and amazing. But I think if you do that kind of preliminary work of practice and values, it takes the reactivity out of it and it becomes more a response because it's more thoughtful.Katherine Hurtig
Right. Yeah, you brought up the idea—families are very complex and very, very different. So how can understanding your own family history give you a bit of insight into your own well-being, mental health, and challenges?Shannon McKinnon
I think looking at your own family history—if you even know it. Not everybody knows their family history. Some people have been very estranged from their family for a long time. So they may or may not know. There may be family histories that no one talks about. Right? And that's the stigma—like mental health or addiction or drug abuse or those kinds of things. Sometimes that history may not be known to you. So history is information. I think we have to figure out how those patterns of interacting within a family historically have affected you in the past. But then how can we harness the present and actually shift and change those?Katherine Hurtig
It makes me think—the kind of stereotypical idea of counselling is you come in and you talk about what was it like growing up? What was it like in childhood? So does rehashing all that—those relationships with parents or family or whatever—is that kind of always the way to go for future growth? Does that make sense?Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, I don't think—I mean, it depends on your kind of approach to counselling. If you're coming to hang out with me, I take the past into consideration, but I certainly don't make it a focus. I'm like, how is it affecting you in the present? And how, as an adult with way more skills, way more resources, way more capacity, and way more critical thinking, how can we approach this now and not be stuck in the past narratives? Because those can be changed. They can be learned from—100%.Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. So I'm thinking, okay, if there's a scenario and your parent dealt with such-and-such mental health concern—maybe they dealt with depression or they dealt with addiction—how do you work with a client like that? Is it like, okay, that's maybe a bit of an explanation on why you're going through what you're going through?Shannon McKinnon
It's their reference point.Katherine Hurtig
A reference point.Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, reference point. So, I mean, if you're wanting to explore those things, it's good to find community. I think finding other people to talk about those things with so you don't feel entirely alone. And also realizing that your past does not fully direct your future.Katherine Hurtig
Right. Let's kind of shift gears a bit and talk about healthy family relationships and good family dynamics—and how that can positively affect you.Shannon McKinnon
Absolutely.Katherine Hurtig
So, yeah, right from childhood, how can those strong relationships help you?Shannon McKinnon
I think having a lot of time where you are seen and heard. And often we, as humans—children or adults—we need to sometimes repeat things to make sense of them, right? Especially challenging things. So if you have a family system where that is permitted and it's unpacked and it's validated, and they know that every single time you repeat it or express it, you're making sense of something. So room for that sense-making and that integration of experience instead of the "I don't want to hear that." That's not really helpful. That teaches folks that emotions are not allowed. And so when you have a good family system in terms of acknowledging emotions, working through emotions, sitting with emotions, feeling joy, happiness, sadness, discomfort—there's an ability to have that emotional intelligence cultivated. And that really helps folks when they have that support system that's able to do that.Katherine Hurtig
That emotional intelligence you're talking about—how can parents start to build that up in kids from an early age?Shannon McKinnon
Having them recognize their emotions or feelings, understand the context that they're coming from, labeling them—like what kind of emotion is this? Is this frustration? Is this anger? Is this happiness?Katherine Hurtig
And modeling that back to them—like, "I'm feeling this way. I had a rough day. I'm feeling frustrated, tired, whatever."Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And expressing the emotions, right? And then reflecting. You know, that's the RULER model. R-U-L-E-R, right?Katherine Hurtig
What's that?Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, I know. That's from a really good book all about kids and expressing emotions and how to really support them in doing that so that they grow into healthy adults. Yeah, it's from the book Permission to Feel. I would really highly recommend that for parents working with kiddos—like anybody working with kiddos, actually. The author of that spent a lot of time in the school systems working with teachers and administrators and everybody—all the adults in the school. He was tasked to work with the children, but then he realized that working with the children wasn't going to bear any fruit unless the adults actually were equally on board within the school system. So what I really like about that model is the RULER model—Recognize, Understand, Label, Express, and Regulate. Yeah, I really love that. Because it's five things, right? It's step-by-step. It's not onerous or hard. It really acknowledges and lets kiddos—and adults.Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. It seems like something you can take into any age.Shannon McKinnon
Sure can. Yeah. It lets that emotional intelligence blossom, right? In terms of like, okay, I can actually look at this and not be afraid of it. Yeah, right?
And externalizing is really good for kids too. It's like, okay, oh, anxiety. What is it? Oh my gosh. Can we draw it? What does it look like?
Oh my gosh, like the problem's the problem, right? That's from narrative therapy, right? The person isn't the problem. The problem is the problem. Let's look at the problem, right?
If there's a problem or a challenge—if there's a behavioral challenge, let's say for children, or they're dealing with high anxiety or depression or emotional dysregulation—let's make that something that they can externalize and be in relationship with so that they aren't pathologizing themselves.Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. Yeah. I've heard that tool before.
My stepson once, when he was younger, was dealing with anxiety and got a bit of counselling. And that was one thing that his counsellor worked on with him—the idea of kind of labeling or naming his anxiety to separate it from himself.
Yeah, and that was really helpful.Shannon McKinnon
You can name it anything you want. You can name it Bob or Frank or Cecilia or Petunia—you know, it's great.
And it allows imaginative problem solving because it engages the imagination to begin with.
And then it's like, oh, okay, imagination is about other possible futures. And so that's a really good approach to looking at a challenge or a feeling.
It allows the opportunity for change in the future. It's not past-oriented.Katherine Hurtig
So, I mean, moving on—teenagers, young adults, adults—how can having a really supportive family help you when you are struggling with your mental health?Shannon McKinnon
I think just having an openness to talk to them about whatever you're going through is really important.
To be like, okay, there's no subjects that are off the table. Because as soon as subjects are off the table, people feel like they have to hide something or not have it in their lives.
And then the shame comes in about feeling the feeling or having the behavior or having the thoughts.
And then you're not really working through it. No, it just lives in darkness in a box that you try to keep closed and keep putting multiple locks on.
But it's very intensive, that process.
So can we share the box with somebody? Can we open the box maybe a little tiny bit in a safe relationship within your family or maybe within your friends group or extended family or intentional family?
You know, for folks that are maybe not close with their family—those friends and colleagues are sometimes intentional family and just as valid.
It's like, who do you feel safe with? Who has cultivated that relationship enough with you to encourage safety?
You can’t have healthy relationships without the base of safety.Katherine Hurtig
Right. That's a really good point. I'm glad you brought it up—that idea of, what did you say? Intentional family?
Because yeah, sometimes the family you're born into or adopted into or whatever, it's not the most healthy.
But you can still have a group of people in your life and kind of make your own family.Shannon McKinnon
Yeah. If you have two good friends, you're doing really, really well. And a lot of people have more than that—that's great. And some people are like, oh, I should have like 10. I'm like, no, actually, if you have two solid, steady, amazing people who you can talk to at any hour about anything, you're doing well. You're golden. That's enough to build resilience and have that feedback loop of like, hey, I need another eye on this, or hey, I'm experiencing this. Like, what differences do you guys notice when I'm struggling? Or what do you notice when I'm really, really doing well? Like, I want to capitalize on that. What do you notice maybe when I've changed my exercise habits or my drinking habits? Getting those—what we call the outsider witness—other people's thoughts and viewpoints on us. Because we are not always the best parameter. I mean, we're definitely one on ourselves, of course.Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, but we have this one way of seeing things. And it's always good to have—right—another perspective.Shannon McKinnon
And that goes to choices and options and imaginative future.Katherine Hurtig
If you haven't had a very close relationship with your family—I'm not talking poor relationships, just not overly close—or you don't feel you have a strong support system around you, what can you do?
What are some ways to start building on that? How do you start improving those relationships? How do you build up that closeness, that safety that you're talking about?Shannon McKinnon
Well, I think it takes motivation on both sides. So if you have the motivation on both sides, then there's workability there, right? And you may or may not. So if you do, then great—then work on that.
Broach conversations. They might be scary or intimidating or be like, oh, I don't know if I should talk about this. But you know, float it. Float it out there and see what the response is. And then that will tell you about willingness. Be like, okay, this is important to me. I know it might not be important to you, but can you make it important for a half hour where I can actually just talk to you about it?
Like, right, just be like—you don't have to listen to me all day, but can I have a half hour of your time? Yeah, like actually undivided, kind of just sitting down—can we talk about this? It's really important. Yeah? So that would be a good start, I think.Katherine Hurtig
So we live in Alberta. It's a big province. I mean, we're obviously in Calgary, but all across the province, there's a bunch of small towns, rural communities, really tight-knit, family-oriented communities. But these places might not have the mental health resources that we are used to in bigger cities.
So if you live in an area like that, how can family be a really good source for support for your mental health?Shannon McKinnon
I think it depends on how strong your community is as well that surrounds your family, right?
And so we know that in rural areas, there's a lot of agriculture and farming and ranching.
And so taking into consideration the right people's lifestyles in doing those jobs—they are long days. They are incredibly long days. They're incredibly physically intensive. They're incredibly financially stressful.Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, there's a lot out of your control for sure.Shannon McKinnon
Right. There's a lot to consider around context, I think, when we're talking about rural families and rural mental health.
So I think that communities being more open and more explicit about making initiatives towards talking about mental health—like the men's sheds. I just love the men's sheds.Katherine Hurtig
What's it called?Shannon McKinnon
The men's sheds.Katherine Hurtig
Men's sheds?Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, where folks who identify as male can go and do bike repair, woodworking, cooking—they can just hang out. And so I think those things being more explicit and more openly available, really, really on purpose helps.Katherine Hurtig
There's more opportunities for community.Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, it helps with the rural aspect, I think. And then I think it also helps sometimes when people are able to—it’s like another culture, right? Farming and ranching is another culture outside of city—city dwellers, right? And so I think that understanding of that culture is really important within your own community, right? And so also, you know, harnessing that. It’ll be like, hey, like, I see what you’re going through. Yeah.Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, that mutual understanding—understanding of what’s going on.Shannon McKinnon
Right. And that goes back to this idea of, like, family. Not everything is a nuclear family. Not—it’s just—that’s going to show my bias here, but not everything is as individualistic and Western as we think it is. I think there’s…Katherine Hurtig
Or it doesn’t have to be.Shannon McKinnon
It doesn’t have to be. It doesn’t have to be your benchmark for healthy or successful. I think there are other options of, like, intentional family or community or communities of practice. Or I think those kinds of things are incredibly helpful in times of stress for folks. We can look to family.Katherine Hurtig
Absolutely.Shannon McKinnon
Sure. But it’s okay if you don’t and you look elsewhere within your communities, right? Maybe you have, like, a volleyball team you’re part of, or, you know, maybe you have, like, a swim club, or, you know, maybe you have a run club that you’re part of. You know, maybe you have, like, a, you know, like a stitch—are more online—right? Um, not ideal, but better than none, hopefully. I mean, that’s a whole other podcast, but, right. But seeking out those other alternate communities as well—like maybe you just, you know, you have a reading club or something, you know? Like, there’s just—there’s other ways to do things outside of family, but it takes the imagining that those are there, or you make yourself available, or you create it, or—Katherine Hurtig
You’re putting in the effort. Yeah.Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, you’re vulnerable enough to, like, show up to a group and be like, I don’t know—I don’t know what they’re gonna think about me, but I’m here. Right? Like, you just—you know, like, yeah, like, most of life is just showing up. We don’t know what’s going to happen. Oh, goodness. Right. You might think you know, but really that’s kind of outside of your locus of control, necessarily. You can show up—how you can control how you show up somewhere within the dynamic, right? But you cannot control other people’s responses or those kinds of things, right. They can be information for you, for sure. Right. Take them as information—they’re not within your control.Katherine Hurtig
You said something a little earlier. It was something about, like, you don’t have to do things a certain way.Shannon McKinnon
No.Katherine Hurtig
Now, just taking that phrase and applying it more broadly—in families comes a lot of expectations. You know, like, parents, grandparents, whatever—they’re going to have expectations on what you do with a career, who you spend your life with, you know, the choices you make. So a couple of questions here: you know, how do these expectations and pressures—how can that have an impact on your mental health? And then how can you deal with that? How can you approach those conversations of “I don’t agree with this expectation. I’m going to go this way instead”? What do we do, Shannon? What do we do?Shannon McKinnon
I think if we can see the core value behind the expectation and meet it with our own core value that is similar or the same, but is manifesting in a different way, we might be able to not have as far of a gap as we think we do.Katherine Hurtig
Do you have an example for that?Shannon McKinnon
Well, let’s say your parents expect you to run the family business and you want to go to school for something completely different. Right. This can happen in a lot of rural families, I’ll tell you, right? So a lot of folks are like, well, I’m going to give you the family farm. And then the child or the adult child is like, I actually don’t want the family farm because I want a different life. Right. And so looking at the values of, like, did they want stability for you? Did they want something that’s known? Did they want something that’s attached to the land? Do they want something that’s—yeah, like wondering aloud in a conversation maybe with them of, like, what is it that you perceive this will provide for me?Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, kind of like the root of that desire or expectation.Shannon McKinnon
Like, you’re taking it as, like, the best intent, right? It’s not, like, a controlling thing, right? So first of all, you’re framing it like, okay, what is behind this wish or desire or expectation? And then being like, okay, so this is how that core value or that desire shows up in me. And this is how I can acknowledge what you just said and what you value about that. And this is how it looks a generation down in a different context and a time frame. Because, gosh, things are changing all the time. Nothing is static. Right. And so this is the issue with past focus. Right. It bases things in a context and time that no longer exist. So it becomes totally irrelevant after a while. So if we can deal in the now and have those conversations of, like, the bridge-building—like, I acknowledge that this is important to you and you have this expectation, but these are actually the future plans that I have that can carry through those—some of those expectations—in a different way. Or maybe they’re totally different. That’s possible too. That’s okay.Katherine Hurtig
So, Shannon, if you—if in your family it wasn’t, or hasn’t been, been normalized that you talk about emotions, talk about your mental health, that kind of thing—how do you start to ease into that? What are the steps you can take to kind of start normalizing those kinds of conversations?Shannon McKinnon
I think becoming comfortable with feelings yourself. That’s a big ask. That’s right. Right? But, yeah—I mean, you can’t walk someone through what you need without kind of figuring out what you’re addressing. So I think that’s—you know, and that could be a giant ask. You know, some of us live in our heads, some of us live, you know, in our hearts, and some of us live in our bodies. And, you know, we all have different kind of, like, preferences and set points, right, where we feel comfortable. But this goes back to that idea of integration, right? When I was talking about the children—right—about integrating and being patient about the integration and the meaning-making over multiple times where they have to tell a story. And then—right—it’s kind of like prolonged exposure, but not quite.Katherine Hurtig
I guess it’s with anything new that you’re unfamiliar with. Yeah. It’s practice. It’s practice. And it’s, you know, trying and failing, but trying again anyway.Shannon McKinnon
Yeah. Most of the things that, you know, people have accomplished in their lives haven’t come super easily. Like, people can—they’d be like, oh my gosh, like, birthing those twins was, like, unreal. Right. And you’re like, yeah, like, that’s a lot. Right. But, like, you know—so, yeah, I’m not saying, like, adversity is fun. I’m not saying that. But I think the getting-through part is part of gaining confidence and success in your ability to survive. And accomplish. I don’t think things that come easily are as maybe valued or thought about, you know. So, yeah, hard feelings are hard. Like, oh, they’re so irritating. They’re so annoying. You know, I don’t like them either. Yeah, I guess sometimes I want to be like, okay, well, what are, you know, what are the five steps here to make this an easy thing?Katherine Hurtig
But, I mean, especially talking about your feelings—talking about mental health—that, like, I think we need to have that expectation that it is going to be uncomfortable.Shannon McKinnon
And so through that discomfort and through, you know, accomplishment and through, like, realizations and through changes—and, yeah, right? Life is not static, right? We like that. Humans like that. It’s like certainty. I would like certainty. Oh, boy, would I ever. I would like my parents to be this way. I would like my siblings to be this way. I would like my home environment to be this way. Sure. Sure. Absolutely. Like, those are things—can you change those things for yourself in your own life in the future or in the present? Right? Can you make those shifts, right, towards those preferred futures? Right. Then absolutely do that. Not a popular answer, but—Katherine Hurtig
But a necessary one.Shannon McKinnon
Mm-hmm. And if you don’t feel sadness, then you can’t feel joy. Do you know what I mean? Like, it’s just, like, your ability to feel emotions—and the depth of emotions, you know—goes both ways. If you’re just kind of flat and can’t feel anything, then you’re not going to feel sad necessarily, but you’re also not going to feel, like, happy. And so it’s the ability to frame that in—you know, there’s going to be some deep, dark holes that hopefully we’ll climb out of, generally with other people’s help. This ability to not do things—this rugged individualism—is harmful. So whether it’s a friend or a therapist or your dog or, like—right. That ability to climb out, right, of the depths, right, gives you an ability to actually then experience past baseline of, like, okay, now I’m more open.Katherine Hurtig
If a family has decided, like, okay, you know, we’re in kind of a tough spot, we’re having some trouble—they’ve made the decision, like, we want to get some help, and they come into counselling—what could they expect for the first few sessions? Like, what would that process potentially look like?Shannon McKinnon
There’s a little bit of a different approach in terms of, like, if we’re talking with minors and parents or if we’re talking about adult family counselling. So it’s a bit different. So we would—generally, what I do with my child and parent clients is I have a bit of a meeting with the parent or parents or whoever the caregiver is—whoever the most important person in that young person’s life is. Could be a foster parent, could be a worker, could be anybody, could be an older brother—older siblings often take over the care of their younger siblings. So having a chat with that person of, like, hey, where are we at? What are you wondering about? What do you see as strengths? What do you see as challenges? What are the current resources you have on hand? I have an initial meeting, and that can be, like, 20 minutes. It’s usually an hour. Sometimes it’s two. Sometimes parents or caregivers really haven’t had a space to be like, oh my gosh, there’s all these things. You’re like, cool. Tell me. Awesome. I don’t count that as a session. I count that as preparation. And so just getting a lay of the land from that perspective.
And then second meeting would be, like—well, first actual session. Then—this is how I do it, not everybody will do it this way—but first session will then be with, like, adult or older caregiver and child. And you lay out some ground rules, and establishing those ground rules, like, as with the family themselves, right? I mean, we have our professional obligations, but we—I think it’s best to have, like—it’s like when you do group and you’re like, hey, group, what’s our group guidelines? What do you want to see? Right? There’s way more buy-in and way more participation because you’ve been forming it from the ground up. So I think that’s really important for your counsellor to acknowledge that your input is vital. Right? So the first session with, you know, parent and child. And then, depending on what you decide in that, maybe you’ll have sessions all the time with parent and child. Maybe you’ll have sessions with just kiddo and give parent an update every four or five sessions, let’s say. So that looks different depending on the family and what the needs are.
I think with adult counselling—mother and son or something come in and they want to sort some stuff, right? It’s a little bit different in that you’re like, hey, this is definitely a relational thing, but often you can do an individual session with son and an individual session with mom—get the reads from both sides of the room, right—and then bring them together again, right. So those kinds of things of, like, really taking time to listen to people’s experience and story and where they might want to be going instead of where they are. Because usually they’re coming in because where they are isn’t what they want for themselves. Yeah.Katherine Hurtig
Thank you so much for this, Shannon. I know, you know, sometimes it’s difficult to make generalized answers about a topic that is so broad because, you know, the word “family”—that can mean so many different things and everyone’s, you know, looks and feels very different. So, yeah. Thank you for attempting to contextualize something really complex.Shannon McKinnon
Yeah. No, you’re welcome. Yeah. Every—every family is its own little mini culture.Katherine Hurtig
It’s true.Shannon McKinnon
Yeah. And so just—yeah, what—listening as a counsellor as to what that is, where they want to go, and how they want to get there. You can help them do that. Yeah, for sure.Katherine Hurtig
Thanks so much, Shannon.Shannon McKinnon
Yeah, welcome.Katherine Hurtig
You’ve been listening to Living Fully, a Calgary Counselling Centre podcast. Thank you for tuning in. This episode was produced by Luiza Campos, Manuel Montano, Jenna Forbes, and by me, Katherine Hurtig. A special thanks to Shannon McKinnon. To stay up to date on our latest episodes, be sure to subscribe. We’re available in your favorite podcast app. Living Fully is a production of Calgary Counselling Centre and recorded in Calgary on Treaty 7 territory. Living Fully Podcast is not a substitute or alternative for professional care or treatment. Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta provide effective counselling to anyone in Alberta with no wait list and no financial barriers. Find us online at calgarycounselling.com and counsellingalberta.com. For help across Canada and the United States, call 211. If you are outside of Canada and the U.S., seek help from your general medical practitioner.