Season 2, Episode 17: Exploring Social Connections as a Key to Overcoming Depression
Depression often makes you want to shut yourself off from the world, but staying connected can be a key part of feeling better. In this episode, Katherine Hurtig sits down with Sarah Rosenfeld, Associate Director of Counselling at Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta, to explore the role social connections play in overcoming depression. They talk about how loved ones can offer support, ways to stay connected when you're feeling down, and why reaching out—even in small ways—can make a big difference. Whether you’re struggling with depression yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode has practical advice on navigating relationships during tough times.
Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta invite you to take a moment to check in on your mental health by completing a brief, anonymous, and free online quiz at areyoufeelingok.com. The quiz takes only about three minutes to complete and is available in English, French, Spanish, Punjabi, Chinese, and Ukrainian. Check in with how you’re feeling and get help if you need it.
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Katherine Hurtig
Welcome to Living Fully, a podcast dedicated to enhancing your mental well-being. Each episode explores valuable insights and practical strategies to help you lead a more fulfilling life. I'm your host, Katherine Hurtig.
In honor of National Depression Screening Day, we've put together a special series on depression, one of the most common mental health issues in the world. In these four episodes, we'll explore the different signs and symptoms of depression, how it affects people of all ages, and what you can do to cope. Whether you're personally affected by depression, supporting someone who is, or simply looking to broaden your understanding, this series will provide insights, practical advice, and hope.
From October 7th to 13th, check in with how you're feeling with a free quiz at areyoufeelingok.com.
One of the best tools we have for good mental health is the relationships we have. Connecting with friends, family, the people we work with, it all has a huge impact on how we see the world and ourselves. I sat down with Sarah Rosenfeld, Associate Director of Counselling at Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta, to talk about the role that relationships and human connection play in improving feelings of depression.
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Sarah Rosenfeld, welcome back.
Sarah Rosenfeld
Thanks. Nice to be here. I always love our conversations.
Katherine Hurtig
Me too. So it is National Depression Screening Day this week. And, you know, we're talking about a bunch of different aspects of depression in a few of our episodes. And today we're going to get into how important it is to stay social and to be around people and to not isolate when, you know, when you're feeling low, when you're feeling depressed. So yeah, I am excited to talk to you about this. What is it about social connection that's so important for someone dealing with depression?
Sarah Rosenfeld
I think it's one of the things that helps us manage some of our symptoms. So what do I mean by that? So it actually helps you regulate emotion. It helps you have empathy for other people. I actually was reading about a study from the Massachusetts General Hospital that identified that social connection is the strongest protective factor for depression.
Katherine Hurtig
Is it?
Sarah Rosenfeld
Yes. So the study, which was published in the American Journal of Psychiatry, looked at more than 100 modifiable factors, including lifestyle. So that's exercise and diet, social, such as support and engagement and environmental factors, which would be green space and pollution. And basically they found that social connection is the most important preventative factor in general populations. And without social connection increased the risk for depression. So I thought that was really, really interesting that those other things are important, but social connection is actually one of the most important things when we're trying to look after ourselves and our mental health.
Katherine Hurtig
And on the flip side, what kind of impact does isolation have on depression? So, you know, if you're, if you're not out with people, if you're not reaching out, what's that going to do for you?
Sarah Rosenfeld
Well, it's gonna lead you to feel really alone, really disconnected, probably not going to give you a whole bunch of perspective about what's really happening. And then it just kind of fuels itself. So the more you do that, the more you do that increasingly. And so you just end up being more and more alone and more and more dealing with your symptoms. Whereas sometimes those social connections are a real buffer to us being able to notice what's happening internally. It's a bit of a distraction sometimes, a positive distraction.
Katherine Hurtig
You touched on this a bit, but can you talk a bit more about like the science behind how connections with people can impact our mental health?
Sarah Rosenfeld
Sure. When you're social connections, the opposite of that would be social isolation, Right. Basically, those people, as I said earlier, have limited interactions with others on a day to day basis. And the potential effects of that. Right. When we look at how that impacts people, it leads to depression, poor sleep quality.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Sarah Rosenfeld
Accelerated decline in your cognitive abilities because you're not actually interacting and responding to other people. So then you're getting less stimulus, less ability to problem solve, decision make, all of those kinds of things.
Katherine Hurtig
Wow.
Sarah Rosenfeld
Executive functioning. So that ability to make decisions, to be right, that air traffic control. When there's lots of stimulus happening, you're actually you're training yourself about how to navigate if that person's coming towards you. How do you engage them or how do you decide you want to move in a different direction? All of that functioning when you're in isolation, you're not doing any of that. And how do you learn how to connect with people on a deeper level if you don't even know how to connect with them on a basic level? One of the things that's really important is just practicing those day-to -day connections so that you can also figure out how to have deeper connection with other people and engagement. So by isolating, you're not doing any of those things.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. And that's kind of, it's a bit of a part of depression hey? You know, you're feeling so low that you don't want to be around other people. So…
Sarah Rosenfeld
Exactly. I think one of the things for people to understand is that even when they're feeling that way, they always have options. For instance, you can say to somebody that reaches out to you. Yeah, I want to see you. But could you come to my house and have pizza instead of us going out? Like, I think a lot of the time people feel like it's an all or nothing proposition.
Katherine Hurtig
I was just going to say, yeah.
Sarah Rosenfeld
It's really not an all or nothing proposition.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Sarah Rosenfeld
And it's about unless there's really a reason that you can't go to something saying yes and, and figuring out how to navigate that. So what do I mean by that? Exactly like I said. So if somebody invites you out, you don't feel like going for out for dinner. Can you figure out a way to have them come to your place? Or can you meet someplace that's less busy because that's more comfortable for you? Right. Can you negotiate a time of day that's a little bit more convenient for you? Can you say yes and then think about how you're going to handle it later? I think there's lots of strategies that people can use. But when you say no, you close that door off indefinitely.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. So the people around you, you know, your friends, family, co -workers, whatever, what would they see if you are struggling with depression? Like what would someone notice about someone's behavior, attitude, things that they're saying? What would they pick up on that might make them think, okay, something's up?
Sarah Rosenfeld
Irritability, frustration. So they get easily frustrated by things. Cynical, like, why does it matter? Why, if I put any effort into this, will it make a difference? Socially withdrawn is what we've been talking a lot about. So they're not connecting. They're not coming up and having meals. They're not taking phone calls. They're not responding to people that reach out to them. I think the other thing is just how are they connecting with the things that they are doing? Did they used to be somebody that was really excited about things and now they're just, eh, whatever. Yeah. It's just something I got to do. Like watching the language that people are using and how they're talking about things, even if they're difficult. Are they saying, yeah, this is a difficult time I'm going through, but I've got these things that I'm looking forward to. Is the glass half empty all the time and nothing is sort of exciting them or nothing they're looking forward to? Those would be kind of indicators.
Katherine Hurtig
And if they're noticing this, what are some first steps that someone could take to help someone out that they notice might be dealing with depression?
Sarah Rosenfeld
One of the things that can be really helpful is being able to say, hey, I know you wanted to go for that walk yesterday. Can I come with you today and do it? I know you wanted to, you mentioned that there was that thing that you wanted to do. How about we get in the car and go do that together? Those really little small things. Some people think it's got to be these big acts. Right. big gestures, but sometimes it's actually those really tiny little ways of showing support that make the biggest difference. So I would say that would be a good starting place. And always being available to that person, but recognizing that they may want their boundaries. And so what do I mean by that? Person might say, I don't want to talk. And you can say, okay, doesn't sound like talking today is what you want to do. But how about I check in in a couple of days and just see where we're at. Yeah. So it's being able to come back and revisit that conversation, which does take some resilience and persistence, but someday there might be somebody on the other end saying, yeah, let it, let's have that conversation today.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. So respecting the boundary, but also there's a bit of insistence. Like I'm, you might be pushing away a little bit, but I am here and I'm going to stay here.
Sarah Rosenfeld
Yeah. I'm not going anywhere because they might not be doing all that well. So it's like, okay, you're, you're struggling right now. I'm doing okay right now, but we're okay. You want to send the message that even though there are struggles, we're okay. And you want to be doing things to recognize and help them know we're kind of doing this together.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. This topic, I mean, it's something that I can very much relate to. When I was, when I was going through depression, I just felt like such a burden. I was like, I would spend like a whole day crying and then my friends would want to get together. And it's like, I, it wasn't just like I don't want to do it. It's like I don't want them to have to deal with me in this state. Like you feel just so inconvenient. So I mean, if someone's in that state of mind, you know, how do you motivate yourself to get out there anyway and be with people, you know, and how can the people around them kind of remind them that they aren't a burden?
Sarah Rosenfeld
Yeah, that's a really tough one. And thanks for sharing that. I think you're right. I think people do feel like they've got to be positive and upbeat and otherwise they're not going to be any fun to be around. Yeah. So I think there's a couple of things that people can do. I think it's reminding ourselves that even though we may not feel like we're enjoyable to be around, maybe people still really enjoy our company because there's got to be moments where you're able to have somebody smile or maybe they just actually enjoy just sitting with you and being there. So it's not always that you've got to be the life of the party and super excited and all of that. I think it's about recognizing that relationships have give and take in them. They're like elastic bands. And I think sometimes when people get depression, they think they're more like a piece of spaghetti where there's tension and it breaks.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Sarah Rosenfeld
An elastic band relationship is one where you're having a rough time. And so I'm going to kind of pick up the slack and do a little bit more here because I know there's going to be time when you're going to bounce back and do that for me. So I think it's about being able to kind of have a metaphor of how you look at your relationships and see that there's a lot more elasticity in them than you think.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. And I think there's that what's the more clinical term for it, like the cognitive distortions that are going on when you're depressed. It's like I couldn't like if I turn it around, I wouldn't ever think if my you know, if one of my close friends was really sad, was going through a hard time, I wouldn't think they were a burden. But, you know, you think that about yourself.
Sarah Rosenfeld
That’s a really important thing that you've just identified there. If you were in that person's shoes, how would you be looking at it? You'd be saying, wow, they're going through a tough time. They probably need a little bit of extra help right now or I'm happy to make them a meal or make them feel good. you're right you never look at it in the same way that the person internally is looking at it and as you said that's often what is one of the hallmarks of depression is those cognitive distortions and so a distortion is really what it says you look in the mirror you see something that's actually not what's in the mirror and then you believe what you see in the mirror right one of the things is really helping people recognize they can do that through support from their family saying, hey, that's not how I see you. They can do it for themselves in terms of trying to figure out when they're having that thinking and what they're actually doing that's positive. And then there's always actually getting some more professional support around, okay, when do you identify that you're doing that? Is it mostly that you dismiss all the positive things that are going on in your life? Or do you become really all or nothing in your thinking? What are the hallmarks of what your particular style and flavor of depression looks like because everybody's looks a little bit different and they'll be able to target and tackle that specifically about how you want to address it.
Katherine Hurtig
So what can someone do if they feel like they want to withdraw, they don't have that motivation to be around people, how do they find that motivation or what little things can they do to kind of maintain social connections when dealing with people feels overwhelming?
Sarah Rosenfeld
So I think it's a little bit like exercise. It's the end of the day or it's the start of the morning. You don't really want to go. You end up putting your running shoes on and going for that walk, going for that run, going to the gym. You come back and you always feel better than you did when you woke up that day or decided to go at the end of the day. So it's that kind of thinking. Yeah, I know this is going to be difficult. I know it's going to be hard, but I always feel better after I feel if I connect with my friends or I go and do that thing where I'm socializing and I take my mind off of the things that I'm worrying about.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. Remembering how you're going to feel.
Sarah Rosenfeld
Yeah.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. That resonates so much. I still get that sometimes. Like, oh, like I just feel like staying home, you know, vegging out in bed. But I know that it's important to go out with my friends, you know, keep up those connections. And you're right. Like I feel, you know, as they say, like my cup feels a lot fuller afterwards.
Sarah Rosenfeld
Yeah, because it helps us to put things in perspective. Yeah. It helps us to get our mind off of things. It helps to reduce those distortions, right? Because we're not in our own head. We're interacting with other people. And I think that's why social connection is so important. It allows us, especially for people that are more internal focused, to think of things outside themselves and then have different experiences and make different connections. And then, wow, looks a little different now than it did three hours ago.
Katherine Hurtig
What would you say to someone who doesn't have a lot of close connections? Maybe they don't live near family or they don't have a lot of close friends or they've just moved or, you know, things like that. How do you push yourself to make new friends or even just find those connections throughout the day?
Sarah Rosenfeld
I think it's about setting those little goals. Like if you're thinking you're in a new city, you've started a new job, maybe. What are you going to do when you go into the office that day? Or how are you going to connect with somebody virtually and just reach out? It reminds me of my early days at Calgary Counselling Center because we were remote within three weeks of me starting the new job. And so it was like, I don't have a community of support here. How am I going to create one? And little by little, I just reached out to people and tried to get to know them and started to build that community. But it didn't start as a huge, massive undertaking. It was, OK, each week, maybe let me reach out and meet somebody new. So I think it's got to be sometimes, right? You talked about those cognitive distortions. Sometimes that's the biggest challenge with depression. Is that you see the issue as being so big that you don't know how to break it down. So you saw that person three times now at the gym, maybe ask for their number and you could kind of connect outside of the gym space or just even saying hi to people when you're going about your regular day to day. When you go do your grocery shopping, strike up a conversation with the teller.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Sarah Rosenfeld
It doesn't have to be huge things. It's just that will help you feel more connected to the world and to people in your world. So that human connection is so important.
Katherine Hurtig
Is there a point when pushing yourself to be social could be counterproductive? Like how do you find that right balance?
Sarah Rosenfeld
I think it's about not seeing socialization as all or nothing. You want to have a principle that socializing a little bit is always better than not doing it at all. A bit is better than nothing. And I think that's, but you also have to recognize that, right, if you've done a lot of really difficult things that week, maybe you go and you spend half the time that you thought you were going to do with people. And you give people a heads up about it and say, look, I'm happy to come out tonight. But just so you know, I think I can only stay for an hour. Is it still okay if I come? And then you have boundaries around saying, OK, I've had my social connection and now I need to go home and decompress because your batteries have been drained. Like it's that social battery thing that I think a lot of people talk about with depression. It's like they've run out of bars and they need to go home and plug in their charger so that they have more bars to do it the next day. So it's also kind of knowing what things deplete your bars of energy. And do you have enough bars to do what it is that you need to do? And can you reduce the time that you've maybe allotted to do it? So it's kind of like what we talked about, the all or nothing mentality. You got to take the offer or not take it at all. How about you take it and modify it? Or how about you take it and then halfway through the evening you say, thanks, this was lovely. I'm going to go home early. I need to get an early night's sleep. So I think it's about.
Katherine Hurtig
Like having that awareness.
Sarah Rosenfeld
Having that awareness and also being able to give yourself options. I think so often people close doors when they're depressed. They think it's got to be everything or nothing at all. And it goes back to what we talked about. You know, your thinking is somewhat off and distorted when you're looking at situations.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. Sarah, what can someone do if their friends, family, whoever, they just don't understand what they're going through or aren't sure how to help them?
Sarah Rosenfeld
I think this is where really this is difficult, but I think it's being able to try to think about what's happening for that person, try to put yourself in their shoes. So often we go to that sympathy place or that pity place. But what do you think it feels like for that person to not have the energy to do the things they want to do or to feel like you said earlier that they feel like they're a burden? And are you able to kind of put yourself in that position and say, I wonder seeing through their eyes what this feels like? What does this actually look like? What could they be experiencing? How could I understand that differently? It's really trying to have that understanding and then be able to say, what do you think I would want to hear if I was in that position? You'd probably want to hear that you're still valued. You'd probably want to hear that you're still cared for. You'd probably want to hear that people still want to spend time with you. You'd probably want to be told that there isn't a limitation on what support looks like.
Katherine Hurtig
And one thing I just thought of, like going back to my own experience, is being, you know, feeling included even if I didn't always feel up to putting myself out there.
Sarah Rosenfeld
That's really important, isn't it? And I think one, sometimes what happens is people start to realize, I keep getting these invitations. Maybe they actually still really do want me to be around. And this time I'm going to say yes. And that's why that's so important is that consistent, continuous invitation and offer. You never know when the person's going to turn around and say, yeah, I do want to show up. I do want to be there. Thanks for the invite. And I am going to be looking forward to this.
Katherine Hurtig
What do you think some small social activities could be that might feel manageable for someone who's struggling with depression?
Sarah Rosenfeld
I think things like going for a walk, doing your coloring in your coloring book, if you have one, if you like to do that kind of thing. So maybe creative. Maybe you do crochet or knitting or painting or writing. Why that's really helpful is that it's hard for your brain to focus on the other things that you're worried about when you're engaged in an activity like that.
Katherine Hurtig
Oh, OK.
Sarah Rosenfeld
So it really refocuses your attention. It's a form of distraction, but a healthy form of distraction. So anything that will consume your attention, energy and focus, probably a pretty useful thing to be doing. And doing that with other people? Absolutely. Always fun to do things with others.
Katherine Hurtig
So Sarah, how can we set boundaries? You know, if we're going through a depressive episode, if we're really feeling down, how do we set boundaries while still staying connected?
Sarah Rosenfeld
So I think you want to detach emotionally from the situation that you can't control, right? So what are the things you can actually change? What's actually within your control? And then redirecting your energy towards those things. So I think often there's a focus on the things that are out of the person's control, like how the friend responded to X or how the boss interpreted Y. Those things are out of your control. So healthy detachment doesn't actually mean that you're shutting down from anything. It's just a redirection of your focus and attention. And so if people can think of it that way, then they're focusing on those things that we talked about earlier. How can you engage in activities that are meaningful? Well, you can do, you know, the walking that we talked about. You can go wash your car. You can, those are within your control.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Sarah Rosenfeld
But how somebody responded is so much more out of your control. So I think it's being able to decide to figure out how you want to engage.
Katherine Hurtig
And so kind of internally, like setting boundaries with yourself?
Sarah Rosenfeld
Yes, it is setting boundaries with yourself. So boundaries with yourself are really that indicator to the world and to people around you about where what's important to you.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Sarah Rosenfeld
So when you're able to set those boundaries externally, you're also reminding yourself of what matters to you and what's important to you. And that that is not going to take up your focus and attention or energy right now. So what do you want to focus your energy and attention on? What is going to be important to you? So it's almost like a recalibration of, what are your values? What matters to you? What's important? And I think it's the little small things that sometimes help us return to what matters. And that's why these pieces around engagement and connection are so important, because it's really hard to do that in the absence of something to respond to.
Katherine Hurtig
You're right. That idea of figuring out your values, determining what your values are, that's come up quite a bit in my conversations with counsellors. And how would one determine that?
Sarah Rosenfeld
How do you like to spend your time? What are the things that you notice you react really strongly to? And what is the purpose and mission for where you're putting your energy and attention? It's almost like everybody has a little mini mission or vision statement about what their purpose and function is.
Katherine Hurtig
Is it important to label it like to have a word or just kind of have a concept of this is what's important to me?
Sarah Rosenfeld
I think it's important to have intentionality. Some people might have an image that they're working towards. They have something on their wall that reminds them of the things that really matter to them. For other people, they actually need to write it out in a business plan and actually be able to have the words that they see. And for some people, it's the experience of being asked the question and then having to self-reflect about it.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Sarah Rosenfeld
And then come up with the answer. Because for some people, they're doing it, and they're living that way. But they've never really been able to make the connection to what it is that's driving that purpose. So being able to have that named, sometimes this is a value. This is important, then helps you know, oh, I'm in alignment here. Or, oh, maybe that's why that thing upset me so much, because I felt disrespected. And that's out of my, right, I really want to feel one of my values is that I feel respected. And so when that happened, I felt disrespected. And that's why I'm having such a strong response.
Katherine Hurtig
Right. So long term, how can the relationships we have help in, I don't want to say recovering from depression, but, you know, managing it long term?
Sarah Rosenfeld
I think it's about building that network of support. I think it's about changing how we look at these things. We never actually manage anything or are successful at anything alone. As much as we might want to tell ourselves that, it's the connection we made. It's the conversation we had. It's being able to sit with other people and learn from them. And that could mean learning some really hard lessons from people and how you want to work. but we don't actually do anything alone.
Katherine Hurtig
I think that’s a huge point to make because I think in so many times, especially if we're struggling, I don't know where it came from, but it's like, yeah, we want to feel like I handled this by myself. It's going to look better on me if I handled this alone. But that's, yeah, you're right. We don't do anything alone. And why would we need to?
Sarah Rosenfeld
Well, I think it's where that shame comes in and that stigma around mental health, unfortunately. We still think that somehow it's our fault. We have to fix it by ourselves. But these are about our connections and relationships and our societies. And so we have to be able to invest in those things to realize, I think, for all of us that this is actually a bigger conversation than just the one that we're having internally with ourselves. It's about the quality of our relationships. And I think if you talk to a lot of people that have really meaningful internal social worlds, but also interpersonal worlds, they tend to be pretty contented. It's not that everything's perfect or that they don't have struggles, but they know they have that network of support. They know they can consult. They know they can go to this person and vent. They know they can go to the gym and see the people that they see, even if they're not talking to them. Those are your networks of support. And we just don't do it alone.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, I don't know who said it. I think it was a musician. No man is an island.
Sarah Rosenfeld
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's just a really important reminder. And maybe that's what we want to leave people with today is that reminder that you're not an island. Don't you don't have to be. It's not actually how we thrive. That it's okay to reach out and have people around you so that you can kind of.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, we need to lean on each other. Yeah.
Sarah Rosenfeld
Start to feel a little bit better.
Katherine Hurtig
Thank you, Sarah. You're welcome.
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You've been listening to Living Fully. Thank you for tuning in. This episode was produced by Luiza Campos, and by me, Katherine Hurtig. A special thanks to Sarah Rosenfeld.
We all experience moments when we feel down or not like ourselves, and it's natural to struggle when these emotions last, but you have the power to overcome them. Anyone can learn the skills to manage these feelings, and even a small single step can make a difference. From October 7th to 13th, take a moment to check in with how you're feeling at areyoufeelingok.com, a free confidential quiz designed to guide you toward feeling better and finding support if you need it. brought to you by Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta.
To stay up to date on our latest episodes, be sure to subscribe. We're available in your favourite podcast app. Living Fully is a production of Calgary Counselling Centre and recorded in Calgary on Treaty 7 Territory. Living Fully podcast is not a substitute or alternative for professional care or treatment. Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta provide effective counselling for anyone in Alberta with no waitlist and no financial barriers. Find us online at calgarycounselling.com or counsellingalberta.com For help across Canada and the United States, call 211. If you are outside of Canada and the U.S., seek help from your general medical practitioner.