Season 2, Episode 16: RE-RELEASE: One Step Better – Small Actions to Tackle Depression
On this episode, we’re re-running our conversation from October 3, 2023, with registered social workers, Anna Hemens and Camille Kim about how small actions can have a big impact on our mental health.
When we’re feeling depressed even the most basic, daily activities can feel overwhelming, and the thought of feeling better can seem out of reach. But small, manageable actions, while they may seem insignificant, are the key to helping us feel like ourselves again. Whether it's the simple act of getting out of bed in the morning, or having a shower, taking a walk, or reaching out to a friend, learn how tackling depression is all about building on small successes.
From October 7–13, Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta encourage you to check in with your mental health through a short, anonymous, and free online quiz at areyoufeelingok.com. Check in with how you’re feeling and get help if you need it. The quiz takes about three minutes and is available in English, French, Spanish, Punjabi, Chinese, and Ukrainian.
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Katherine Hurtig
Welcome to Living Fully, a podcast dedicated to enhancing your mental well-being. Each episode explores valuable insights and practical strategies to help you lead a more fulfilling life. I'm your host, Katherine Hurtig.
In honor of National Depression Screening Day, we've put together a special series on depression, one of the most common mental health issues in the world. In these four episodes, we'll explore the different signs and symptoms of depression, how it affects people of all ages, and what you can do to cope. Whether you're personally affected by depression, supporting someone who is, or simply looking to broaden your understanding, this series will provide insights, practical advice, and hope. From October 7th to 13th, check in with how you're feeling with a free quiz at areyoufeelingok.com.
Today, we're re-releasing an episode from last year that is just as relevant now as when we first recorded it. You might notice that the audio quality is a bit different. This was recorded online before we had our current equipment, but the conversation is still full of helpful insights, especially for anyone dealing with depression.
When we're feeling depressed, even the simplest tasks can feel overwhelming and the idea of feeling better might seem really far away, but in reality, it’s those small manageable actions, things like getting out of bed, taking a shower, going for a walk or calling a friend, that help us rebuild our sense of well -being. In this episode, I chat with registered social workers Anna Hemens and Camille Kim about how taking small steps can lead to big changes in our mood and mental health.
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So today we're going to be talking about depression. That's one of the most common mental health concerns, but it is also one of the most treatable. And we're going to be talking about how small, simple steps and actions can really help manage and alleviate depression. So I'm here with Anna Hemens and Camille Kim from Calgary Counselling Centre. Thanks so much for being with me today.
Anna Hemens
My pleasure.
Camille Kim
Hi.
Katherine Hurtig
Now, Anna, you've been on the podcast a few times, But if you want to just refresh our listeners, give us a little bit of details about yourself and your background, that'd be great.
Anna Hemens
Hi, everybody. My name's Anna. I've been a therapist at CCC for about four years. Before this, I lived in England, as you might be able to tell by my accent. And in England, I worked as a nurse.
Katherine Hurtig
And Camille, how about yourself?
Camille Kim
Hi, I am a social worker and I've been a counsellor for about five years now. Before that, I worked as a teacher and raising kids. Excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Katherine Hurtig
Thank you so much. So you two, how would you define depression? What does it look like? What does it feel like?
Camille Kim
I will start if that's okay. Depression can mean a lot of things to different people. And it can really be a little bit challenging to define, I would say. We have some general guidelines for sure. I just want to start by saying it can show up so differently for different people. Such a unique experience.
Katherine Hurtig
Right.
Camille Kim
In general, depression can be defined as a period of time in which you experience some symptoms that are quite similar. A lot of people with depression or have experienced depression will report having feelings of sadness or feelings of hopelessness. sometimes feeling stuck or powerless. There are also some physical attributes that can come with that, like feeling quite fatigued, having a hard time getting out of bed, sometimes missing work and activities. And then there's also a thoughts component or a psychological component for that. Might have some suicidal thoughts, some very low motivation. Sometimes things that were once really enjoyable, it's no longer enjoyable. And feeling a lack of hope. So that's like a general idea of what depression can look like, sound like, feel like. But it really gets to a point where it really impedes daily functioning. And that's when it's good to get help.
Katherine Hurtig
And Anna, what do you think like a family member or friend would notice in someone in their life that was dealing with depression?
Anna Hemens
I think they would notice that kind of lack of energy. Somebody that's staying in their room a lot, that's not really kind of talking very much. When they do, their voice might be flatter and kind of less tone in their voice. And they'll probably just pick up on that sadness that's there. And thinking about what Camille just said about depression. To me, depression is like a cloud that kind of covers people. right, this cloud of kind of sadness. And Vincent van Gogh said the sadness will last forever. And that was his kind of diagnosis of depression. I imagine that that's how it feels, right? Like this sadness will last forever. And so family members, I think you'll see that. You'll see the person has lost their spark. You can feel that sadness, that lack of energy.
Katherine Hurtig
What would kind of be the indicators of someone just, you know, experiencing sadness or a few bad days or grief, as opposed to depression?
Camille Kim
Everybody experiences sadness. Grief is also a very normal experience for humans. I would say if the depression symptoms and the sadness was occurring for a longer extended period of time to the point of really feeling like I'm not myself, I can't seem to get back up to where I was, I'm really struggling just to get through a normal basic day. We might self -care decline a little bit. So, I mean, I can speak from my own experience. I know sometimes, you know, I'll just let you know, my dad passed away about five months ago, and that's a normal environmental cause for depression, where there's grief and loss. It doesn't have to be depression, it can just be some down feelings. But in that context, for me, I noticed that sometimes self -care declines a little bit so it gets harder to like make myself a good meal or remember to drink water or go to bed early so I get a good sleep just small things like that yeah I noticed in myself and you might notice in your family member and I was wondering if anyone else on the panel here can kind of relate to that or what their experience is.
Katherine Hurtig
For sure. I mean I've dealt with depression on and off for since I was about 19 I'd say. In the beginning, yeah definitely those little things you said, like the self -care, it can be hard to just to keep those up and to make sure those are in your routine. Like I remember I found it just really difficult to stay motivated to exercise, you know, I just was tired all the time. I just didn't want to move.
Camille Kim
I'm sure a lot of our listeners can really relate to that, that fatigue and feeling hard to get motivated.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. You know, so we've talked about what depression can look and feel like and how it can show up physically are there small manageable ways that people can, that can help deal with those feelings help deal with those thoughts?
Anna Hemens
And I just want to be clear here about your question Katherine - so you're thinking about like the thoughts that people have and kind of work that they can do steps they can take in that part or are we talking about like the small actionable steps people can take in their daily life?
Katherine Hurtig
Either one really I mean I think that we should touch on both.
Anna Hemens
Cool. Yeah, absolutely. In terms of the thinking part of depression, depression involves a lot of thinking. Depression involves a lot of getting caught up in your head of going round and round and round certain thoughts, looking for kind of answers. And there's self-blame that's there too, self -blame and self-criticism that comes up here too. So I think that being aware of that and being aware of kind of the thought processes and thinking about, you may notice that you tend to pay more attention to those kind of the bad things, the negative things and being more aware of what your kind of thinking landscape looks like. And then obviously accessing counselling is a great way to help to challenge and learn about your different thinking style and way to challenge that. But for you right now, I would say that when you catch yourself being caught up in kind of that self blame, it's really practicing like being compassionate and caring to yourself. We hold ourselves to such high standards and we beat ourselves up over like small little things. And I think it's being able to be like caring to yourself like you would be to a friend and just being like, it's OK. OK, that I'm tired right now. I can just do this one small thing. And that's, you know, so I think that's that's one of the key things about kind of thinking in depression.
Katherine Hurtig
Right. That self-compassion that can show up in lots of different ways. Like I know that, you know, not every everyone with depression would have the exact same kinds of thoughts. So can you think of any other examples where self-compassion could come up and be helpful?
Anna Hemens
Yeah, the big one for me is like self-blame, self-criticism. I think they're the big ones that come up, like taking on things that say, thinking something's happened. It's my fault. It's all down to me. I can't do this. And being able to put that kind of, it's OK. You know, you're blaming yourself here for something that was not totally your responsibility. You know, kind of having that caring voice to counteract the kind of self -blame. That's the big one that pops up for me. Does that fit for you too? Camille?
Camille Kim
I’m so glad that you mentioned that, Anna, because I think that's something I do see with both myself and a lot of other people who are struggling with depression symptoms is that they can really blame themselves, like you mentioned. And it kind of makes the whole situation worse. So we haven't really talked about yet what are the causes for depression. And there's many of them. They can be biological, psychological, social, and environmental. But we think about, you know, there might be an environmental cause that causes conditions for depression to happen, like my case, my family member passing. But it can be how we respond or react to that that plays a part in kind of increasing or decreasing the depression symptoms. So for example, like Anna mentioned, when something goes wrong or we're not doing as well or we miss work or having a hard time getting out the door because of what we're experiencing, instead of blaming ourselves and feeling down about that, which can make things worse, really giving ourselves like that healthy and helpful serving of self-compassion like Anna mentioned can be so much better. Sometimes saying to ourselves, you know, I can do this. You got this. You know, it's going to be okay. We're going to get through this and it's not going to always be like this. Things can't change and they will change. And sometimes just hearing those words can be enough of a comfort to kind of get me out the door or get someone else out the door to get a little sun and some fresh air and a little nature time which all of those things can be really beneficial.
Katherine Hurtig
So over time if we you know if we pause when we're thinking negatively and give ourselves these messages of motivation and self -compassion over time does that help to kind of change our thinking?
Anna Hemens
Yeah so we have in terms of like the biology behind this our brains have neuroplasticity right so that means that we can actually change the structure of our brain. And so doing this kind of changing our thoughts is one way that we can help to restructure our brain. It's like we're building these new pathways, these different ways of thinking.
Katherine Hurtig
I've found that idea so helpful in my own experience with depression and anxiety, knowing that I can actually change my brain. I find that so hopeful. Because I think, you know, when you're in depression, like you mentioned, Camille, it can feel really hopeless. but that idea that with a bit of with a bit of work with a bit of consistency you can actually change the pathways in your brain I don't know I find that fascinating and just really hopeful that these thoughts and feelings are not permanent.
Camille Kim
I think that's really key Katherine is that change can happen. It can feel like we're stuck but in fact we're not things do change in fact change is inevitable. It's impossible to keep things the same. And like you said, that hope that we can change even our thought patterns a bit is empowering. It means we have some choice. I think about attitude a little bit, like an I can't attitude, only because I'm noticing this in myself lately. When a task or a plan or something comes up, I'll just immediately shut it down. Like, oh, I can't do that. My husband's been pointing it out to me and I had no idea that was doing it. It's kind of a habit. I looked at it and I realized it was sort of a coping tool, feeling overwhelmed and just shutting something down. But just recognizing that repeating I can't puts me in a certain mindset that actually limits my own abilities and growth. And I think sometimes we all do that to a degree and wondering and looking what it's like to switch to an I can, or maybe I can, maybe I'll try.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. Like just being very realistic with it. Like maybe I can, even that it's, it's not as finite. It's not as concrete as like, no, I can't.
Camille Kim
Exactly. I can't just shuts it all down. And we put our own limits on ourselves. So I think that's a good point, Katherine, that, that just having that, maybe I can, it opens up possibilities for something new, something different.
Katherine Hurtig
You had mentioned, Camille, about getting the motivation or the energy to just get outdoors, get in nature, get some sunshine. So can we talk a bit about those physical actions, those small steps and how they may kind of build up to improving someone's depression?
Camille Kim
Sounds good. Anna, do you want to start? I have some stuff I can add after.
Anna Hemens
Yeah, yeah, sure. And I think this is just such an important area. Katherine and as you were talking previously about like knowing that we can change our brains that idea of change, hope right from feeling really hopeless and stuck to being able to see that things can change and I think when you can find some small little actions that you can do that that's kind of the same thing it's like hope that you're not feeling so stuck there are small little things that you can achieve that make you have this sense of kind of accomplishment and you feel good like there's actually you receive and experience positive emotions and shifting our focus away as well from feeling stuck to feeling again like I can like shifting our focus and I think what's really important is that we don't try and set ourselves like really big targets or big goals like you said small steps right and that's the key because if we set ourselves something really big then we feel kind of overwhelmed or intimidated I'm sorry no no I can't I can't I can't but if we can set something really small you know so instead of reading a book read one page right set yourself that target or you know call one friend like setting something really really small that you can achieve.
Katherine Hurtig
I need to take a huge hike or I need to run 10 kilometers or… no, I just going to take a walk down to the end of the block.
Anna Hemens
That's it. Just something small. And we get the chemicals in our brain that actually make that feel good. Right. And give us that sense of kind of accomplishment. I think also if you find that you can't keep up with, with kind of doing those little small steps and that self -blame that we've talked about comes in, then it's practicing that kind of self-compassion of being like, it's okay, right? I'm taking the steps to get better. I'm doing something here. It's okay that I didn't get, I didn't manage to do that one today. Tomorrow's a whole new day.
Katherine Hurtig
Right. So these small steps, like, you know, getting out of bed in the morning, taking a shower, taking care of ourselves, going for a walk, would those build like a sense of accomplishment or like how do those small steps work towards feeling better and feeling less depressed?
Camille Kim
Such a great question. Well, I would say that when we feel depressed, especially for longer periods, and it's impeding daily functioning, we tend to get behind in our lives. We get behind in our self -care, but also in our work and in our responsibilities. So it can be really overwhelming to face that to -do list. And that's why focusing on like small achievements is allows us to not get too overwhelmed. So, you know, if we, if we look at it like a mountain and we're hiking up the mountain, it can just be so overwhelming to stand at the bottom and look to the top and think like, how am I going to get there? It's too far. It's too hard. It's too much. I just give up. It's so overwhelming. But if I can just think of taking 30 seconds of steps into that hiking trail and get started and I'm on the path, maybe I just am imagining going, you know, a little bit up the mountain and that's all I can do today. It is just more achievable when we can look at it that way. And so that's why, as you said, Katherine, you know, maybe you might think about getting back to our exercise goals as if we just break it into small steps and that the goal is really just to start, like you said, getting out the door, I'm going to walk to the end of the driveway and back. Maybe it's just opening my window and getting a little bit of light in my eyes and breathing in the fresh air. And that might be a start. But really breaking it into small pieces towards something else so that it's achievable and attainable in small steps.
Katherine Hurtig
I don't know. What I'm hearing is we really have to kind of reframe our mindset around progress. Because I think, you know, a lot of times it's like, well, you know, unless I complete this big goal, I haven't achieved something. but really reframing our idea like the fact that I'm feeling depressed and got out of bed this morning or that I went for a walk down the block and just changing our mindset and accepting that those are accomplishments.
Anna Hemens
There’s a phrase that I really like of like for now right so for now this is this is what I this is what I'm doing like for like and so at the moment because we're different at different times in our life and I'm living with depression and we set these really like high hard goals that maybe we did do 10 years ago or five years ago but right now for now walking to the end of the road I'll be happy with that.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah
Camille Kim
Katherine you asked like how did these small things help and that's such a good question it would depend on what the small thing is but we know that movement, exercise, getting outside however you want to phrase it is really one of the number one tools for dealing with depression symptoms
Katherine Hurtig
Is it?
Camille Kim
And it's one of the things that helps the most.
Katherine Hurtig
Why is that?
Camille Kim
I think because it accomplishes so many things in one experience. We get fresh air, we get sun, all things that humans need. We get our body moving. So it accomplishes so much and just in moving our body, it brings circulation to different parts of our body. We know that moving and breathing improves our functioning and our digestion with stress, our hormone system. All of the functionings of our body are regulated by our breath. And just by moving, we're sort of waking all of our systems up to move towards a healthier way of being. So maybe that's why movement and being outside just seems to accomplish so many things at one time.
Katherine Hurtig
And it doesn't have to be strenuous exercise, right? We don't have to really get that heart rate up to see benefits. Is that right?
Anna Hemens
Yeah, you're absolutely right, Katherine, is it doesn't. And there was actually like a 10 -year research study that said that you just need like one hour over the whole week to prevent depression so that's like 10 minutes a day yeah right or less than 10 minutes a day helps to prevent depression of just moving our body.
Katherine Hurtig
That sounds manageable yeah.
Anna Hemens
Yeah for us you know we all have these busy lives and again we're setting ourselves these really big targets but instead just moving our body for 10 minutes going and stepping outside and getting that sunlight and getting all of those kind of wonderful changes that happen in our body and in our brain.
Camille Kim
Another really, really awesome thing that you can add is that sometimes just putting on like a lively piece of music that you like or a song that you like to sing and just moving your body to the music and singing.
Katherine Hurtig
I love that. Yeah.
Camille Kim
It's like a great way, you know, because through the winter, sometimes it's hard to get outside or it's at night. Just putting on a piece of music and kind of getting silly with it is a great way to move indoors.
Katherine Hurtig
I think you make a really good point. Cause like, I mean, we talk a lot, obviously exercise is good for us in so many ways, including our mental health. But I think people have, you know, get this idea that it has to be a certain way. Like, oh, if I'm exercising, it's, you know, got to be intense cardio or got to work out at a gym, but that you really have to find movement that you enjoy that resonates with you that you can do sustainably or else it's not you like your the consistency won't be there and you're not gonna have fun with it.
Camille Kim
Find something that you enjoy doesn't feel too much like a chore and I think that's why it helps is that it brings joy when you experience it
Katherine Hurtig
Right. Over the past couple years I've I've really gotten into running and like that has been absolutely huge for my mental health like it's honestly like just kind of the metaphors around it have have really like taught me so myself and about like being able to do hard things and not comparing myself to other people. So yeah, I think people, you know, just need to find the movement that makes them happy. It could be anything could be like, like you said, Camille dancing in your house, it could be swimming, it could be, you know, rock climbing, whatever. The concept of self care has come up quite a bit. Can we kind of break that down a little? Because I think it's talked about a lot, but I think that can be not confusing, but just like, what does that mean? Can we define that a little bit more?
Camille Kim
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because it does sound a bit vague at times. I was thinking about this. I think the goal, the small steps goal is really to build a self -care routine that supports us feeling better, but also doing better. If we think about the fact that there are biological factors as part of depression means that we're talking about our body and how our body functions. And if we think about basic human needs, us needing nutrition, us needing water, us needing sleep, and us needing social supports or some kind of social environment. And these are basic human needs that we all need. And so when I talk about self -care, I'm talking about looking at those areas and deciding, you know, where could I improve a bit or where could you improve a bit in these areas? And often when we talk, we realize, oh, I'm not getting enough sleep or I'm not eating well or I'm eating way too much sugar or I'm having alcohol or whatever these factors are that can disrupt just our biology and the way that we're trying to get those basic needs. So I think that's a factor is sometimes it's nutrition, it's lifestyle, it's movement. Would you add anything there Anna like the social part?
Anna Hemens
I think self-care it does sound complex like you're right and I think maybe we each have a slightly different definition of self-care and I think it's about doing…
Katherine Hurtig
Right, which makes sense because everyone's different and basic needs are definitely the same for everyone but you know yeah it's gonna differ a bit with each person.
Anna Hemens
And I think it's my thought about self-care is it's about taking care of yourself whatever that looks like and whatever that means it's doing something for you and for your benefit right and I think about you're right Camille there are those um there's really key points about what we're eating we're moving our body and sleep - sleep is such a big one like we know that sleep disturbances and depression go together and how if I haven't slept well how much harder things in the day seem right even little things it really does and so if we're living with depression and sleep is affected too how that's really adding to how we're feeling and so I think that's like a that's a part of my self-care it's definitely about my sleep like make sure I have a routine and I don't drink coffee after lunchtime and I don't eat a large meal after like 6 p.m. and it's like and I wear earplugs at night too really making sure that we optimize these parts you know of our self-care.
Katherine Hurtig
So um you brought up social connection - how is that important for someone who's dealing with depression?
Anna Hemens
And I'm going to jump on this one Katherine because this is just something that I feel so passionate about and so depression makes us go inward as we talked about and right and we and we isolate from people too and that's quite a natural part of depression but even if we're introverts human beings are biologically social creatures so when you think back to the beginning days of humans you know we were in group because if you were on your own it wasn't safe for you right so you and you would take care of each other as a community and as a group so biologically we're to have that kind of connection and being in kind of a group. And so I think social connection is one of the most important parts for me of self-care for all of us and particularly with depression too. And how that looks, I think, is many, many different ways of accessing social support, be it like friends, family members, support groups, interest groups, religious community, messaging platforms, like finding these ways that we can connect with other people because then we don't feel alone, right? There's somebody else that we have with us.
Katherine Hurtig
And so, so that as well, like the, the social connection, we can kind of take that into the, you know, small step arena. And cause like you said, when you're feeling depressed, you do want to isolate yourself. So it might be really difficult to, to motivate yourself to, to give that friend a call. So maybe just making those small goals for yourself, like tomorrow, I'm going to text one friend or I'm going to reach out to my mom or something like that.
Camille Kim
I just wanted to add that most people can relate to depression symptoms and that sometimes when you're experiencing it, we sort of, it feels much bigger and bigger and bigger and it somehow feels shameful or there's something wrong with me, that type of thing. And it's harder to reach out and just tell a family member, I'm not doing well. It's okay to do that. It's okay to call a friend and say, you know, I'm just struggling. I'm just feeling stressed or I'm feeling lonely, feeling sad. And that you'd be surprised sometimes how powerful it is just to say that. And that hopefully people have a good family member or a good friend that they can say that too. And it's like releasing that burden from you, from carrying it all ourselves and asking for just someone to listen. And that can be really powerful, just sharing that with people. Also, because it gives them permission to do the same when they experience it. They can come to you and say the same thing, taking away the stigma and the shame. And just realizing that we're human. This is part of what people go through. It's okay to share.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, just kind of removing a bit of that isolation, like knowing that you're not alone in what you're feeling.
Camille Kim
Yeah, exactly.
Katherine Hurtig
So and then Camille what advice would you give to someone who wants to support a friend or a loved one dealing with depression um and encourage them to take small steps towards um towards feeling better?
Anna Hemens
First of all I think it must be really hard to see like we're naturally like social kind of caring beings and so having somebody in our life who's living with depression that's really tough and so i would say my advice and then i'll ask um Camille to add in hers too is like learning about what depression is well here we are on this podcast so maybe you've got a little bit more information coming your way now really listening to the to the person and I say that because I think when we care we try to jump in and fix right we try to jump in and like and give solutions for that person
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah solve the problem.
Anna Hemens
We do, and for a good reason but I think one of the most powerful things that we can do and it's just listen and if you can relate, relate but just listen and let that person know they're not alone right and be caring with that person and help them to find support as well and and sometimes I think helping with some of the small tasks as well that feel like overwhelming you know like if somebody has all these different things to do maybe going with them to go to the pharmacy or going with them to go and get their hair cut or kind of helping to alleviate some of the stress that people feel and taking care of yourself. I bet I should pass it. Yeah, Camille, what are your thoughts?
Camille Kim
Yeah, I think those are really, what I really liked about what you shared there, Anna, is that you didn't have a bunch of advice for them or a bunch of suggestions. You really focused on like listening to the person, just being there for them. I think it also helps sometimes to ask, how can I help?
Anna Hemens
Yeah.
Camille Kim
And have the other person let you know what they need from you. I know sometimes just saying, hey, I'm available for like a short walk at night and I could drive over to your place. Anytime, just let me know. That type of thing. Making yourself available to them as they need is sometimes a really lovely gift. Gift of time, gift of presence, gift of friendship. Sometimes too, asking people if they've seen their doctor, if maybe counselling would help. Those are two things that are really helpful especially getting checked out about all the
different factors and that can help the person get on track as well if they're ready for that.
Katherine Hurtig
You guys brought up two really interesting points that I think we don't think about enough when it comes to supporting someone and I really like that idea of helping people out if they're feeling overwhelmed and just going with them whether it was like you said to the pharmacy or the grocery store or whatever and just that might not be the first thing we think of as something helpful but you're right even those little chores like just having someone along can feel really supportive and Camille I love your idea of suggesting a doctor or counselling I mean those things can be hard it can be hard to say to someone and it can be difficult to hear but I think that really shows that you care about someone you care about their well -being and that you think that like you can't provide an answer for them but this external resource might be something that'd helpful.
Camille Kim
And I just wanted to add that it's really important not to minimize what they're going through.
Katherine Hurtig
Of course.
Camille Kim
So sometimes people, I find myself even want to say things like, well, it's not that bad. It could be worse. You've got such a great life. And I think it just really negates what the person's experiencing because of course all those things could be true, but it doesn't help the person that's experiencing real emotions.
Katherine Hurtig
Right.
Camille Kim
So to kind of put that stuff aside and just listen and support them and believe them.
Anna Hemens
Thank you for saying that Camille. I think that's really important and something else as you were talking that came up for me is sometimes it's really hard when we're living with depression to reach out to anybody and so if you if you spot some other symptoms in somebody in your life you reaching out to them not in a big way but just even leaving messages just being like hey thought about you today you know or something like that just letting them know there's somebody in their life when they feel like they can reach out they know you're there
Katherine Hurtig
Right someone notices.
Anna Hemens
Yeah
Katherine Hurtig
Well thank you so much guys um this has been an excellent conversation and I think just a really important one to really normalize depression and um let people know that it doesn't have to be this huge mountain to climb that you can take you know these small steps to, uh, to feel better.
Camille Kim
Thanks so much, Katherine.
Katherine Hurtig
This episode was produced by Luiza Campos and by me, Katherine Hurtig.
We all experience moments when we feel down or not like ourselves, and it's natural to struggle when these emotions last, but you have the power to overcome them. Anyone can learn the skills to manage these feelings and even a small single step can make a difference. From October 7th to 13th, take a moment to check in with how you're feeling at areyoufeelingok.com, a free confidential quiz designed to guide you toward feeling better and finding support if you need it. Brought to you by Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta.
To stay up to date on our latest episodes, be sure to subscribe. We're available in your favorite podcast app. Living Fully is a production of Calgary Counselling Centre and recorded in Calgary on Treaty 7 territory. Living Fully podcast is not a substitute or alternative for professional care or treatment. Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta provide effective counselling for anyone in Alberta with no wait list and no financial barriers. Find us online at calgarycounselling.com or counsellingalberta.com. For help across Canada and the United States, call 211. If you are outside of Canada and the US, seek help from your general medical practitioner.