Season 2, Episode 19: New parent survival guide – navigating parenthood with confidence
This episode explores the mental and emotional challenges new parents face as they adjust to life with a newborn. Counsellor Jennifer Grassie talks about how parenthood can impact both moms and dads differently, from balancing work and family roles to handling feelings of responsibility, self-doubt, and overwhelming pressure to "get everything right."
Our conversation covers practical self-care strategies, ways to keep the relationship strong, and tips for supporting mental health during this major life transition. We also talk about managing exhaustion, practicing self-compassion, and asking for help when things feel overwhelming. Expectant or new parents will find advice on preparing for parenthood, including setting realistic expectations, and establishing support systems.
We also hear from Chloe, a Calgary Counselling Centre client who came to counselling when the challenges of parenthood felt overwhelming. She shares how counselling equipped her with tools to navigate her emotions and practice self-compassion as she embraced the demands of motherhood.
-
Katherine Hurtig
Welcome to Living Fully, a podcast dedicated to enhancing your mental well -being. Each episode explores valuable insights and practical strategies to help you lead a more fulfilling life. I'm your host, Katherine Hartig. Becoming a parent brings more change than almost anything else. It's exciting, but it can also be a tough transition. Today, we'll explore the mental health impact of this life shift. Many new parents experience waves of emotion they didn't expect, and it's easy to feel lost or alone in the journey. Joining us is counsellor Jennifer Grassi, who has guided many parents through the challenges of early parenthood. She'll share practical tips and encouragement to help you manage the demands of parenthood while staying balanced and taking care of yourself. We're also going to hear from Chloe, a Calgary Counselling Centre client who came to counselling to work through some tough emotions that came with being a mom. Let's get started.
…
Okay, I'm here with Jennifer Grassie, counsellor at Calgary Counselling Centre. Thank you so much for talking with me today. Thank you for the invitation. Now, we haven't had you on the podcast yet. So tell us a little bit about yourself.
Jennifer Grassie
Okay. I have been in this field. I am a registered social worker since 2003, if you can believe that, and have been lucky to be a part of the CCC team here for going on three years now.
Katherine Hurtig
Excellent. So becoming a parent, it's one of the biggest changes that we can go through. I mean, whether that's through birth or adoption and, you know, all the most of the time, it's very exciting, very joyful. It can also bring a lot of stress. So we're going to go over some of those stressors, what new parents can do to make that transition a bit easier and how to take care of yourself and your relationship as you enter this new stage. So yeah, let's, let's just get right into it, Jennifer. From your perspective, how, how does becoming a parent kind of affect moms and dads a bit differently?
Jennifer Grassie
From my experience, and even just based on some of the individuals that I work with, you know, dads do share different stressors. Some are joint, right? So not, no expectation just because of that gender difference. But they do share that some of their stressors that they take on after becoming a new parent have been things tied to feeling more of a responsibility for the family. So taking on more of that like provider role of providing safety and protection, being able to have an answer for most things if needed, those kinds of things. And when I've had conversations with moms, they have shared that it tends to be tied more to feeling overwhelmed with the responsibility of now, like this, this little life and needing to have the answers to all the things.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Jennifer Grassie
Right. So, so those are some of the main pieces. In my experience also, some moms have shared too that they struggle with that piece of do I go back to work? Do I stay here? How am I going to do this? Not having the answers right away.
Katherine Hurtig
Right. Yeah, it’s such a big change. It's not just this new person. It changes your routine and your identity and how you spend your time.
Jennifer Grassie
It’s all of those things and more, right? So it's a lot and it is for both in different ways and some are shared stressors as well.
Katherine Hurtig
And what kind of, you know, emotional, mental changes might new parents go through after having a baby or introducing a child into their life?
Jennifer Grassie
Oh, this is a big one because there is a lot. And I think part of this is too that, you know, we sometimes don't expect it to impact in quite that way. You hear all of the things and you hear sometimes stories and somehow until you're in it, it's far removed. But definitely there are some things that are common. And one of the things is there is a period when you are adjusting and that attachment piece is sometimes something that can impact.
Katherine Hurtig
The attachment?
Jennifer Grassie
Yes. And what I mean by that is sometimes parents will share and in particular women, actually, when I've worked with them, you know, feeling like perhaps maybe the bond is not immediate at some times. Sometimes it is for many it is, but also for a lot of first time parents, it isn't. And so that even in itself, it raises concern and there is stress and kind of even a little bit of guilt and shame.
Katherine Hurtig
I would think that because, I mean, you know, what you see is like you've got these expectations, like I'm going to have this baby and I'm immediately going to love it and things are going to look like this, this and this. And so when things don't fit those expectations, that would be difficult.
Jennifer Grassie
And it is hard because, you know, the truth is, in my experience and even personally, because I am, I guess I should say that I am a parent too of two amazing, beautiful children. You kind of have things planned out, right? You have this idea. And then sometimes things do not - most so I'm trying to say in most cases a lot of the time that plan is not going to go as you anticipated
Katherine Hurtig
Right.
Jennifer Grassie
And that's okay and that's part of the process.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah it's you know it can be such a struggle because it's like it's so normal to have expectations and make plans but at the same time we want to be able to be accepting when those plans don't go through and you know and don't meet our expectations it's kind of like, yeah.
Jennifer Grassie
It’s tough and it's and part of it too is we're hard on ourselves yeah right so it's not so much even in many cases you know what our partners are thinking or feeling and or extended family it's more us and kind of you know just placing that extra pressure on ourselves I guess right as first-time parents even though it's the first time we expect that we should know all the things.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, I know.
Jennifer Grassie
And that's not that's not how it is. Right.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, and this kind of, it leads me to my next question. Like, let's talk about the pressure that that new parents feel to get everything right and how that can kind of impact their mental health.
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah, this one is a real big one for both women and men or whoever identifies as such. The pressure is intense for the main caregiver, because sometimes, you know, not everyone is fortunate to have both parents at home at the same time. So someone usually makes a decision to stay back or have that extra time at home with baby. And so, you know, there's that pressure of, you know, needing to know what to do in the moment, being tired. And sometimes we give ourselves the message of we got to push through, you know, it's kind of that mentality, which is really, really hard. And it's also not realistic when you think about it, right? Like we, we can get tired and it's okay to say I'm tired and I'm maybe at my max here or feeling like I'm getting there.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. And I think, I mean, that's a perfect example of how we, we really need to rely on community in situations like that.
Jennifer Grassie
A hundred percent.
Katherine Hurtig
And not, cause this comes up and it just yesterday I was having a conversation with another counsellor about how, especially with mental health stuff, it's like, we think we have to handle it all on our own.
Jennifer Grassie
That's right.
Katherine Hurtig
And that's so not the case. And this is definitely another, another example of that, that we need to rely on other people and get help.
Jennifer Grassie
It's okay to not have the answers. And that’s a big one, you know, and tied to this is also, you know, when we're talking about, and in my experience with, with men, And it's that added pressure to of, you know, having that financial responsibility. Right. And also just, you know, being expected to know the answers right in the moment in real time and or even to have solutions. And sometimes it's like, you know what, we both don't know. And that's OK.
Katherine Hurtig
Of course you wouldn't know.
Jennifer Grassie
No, I mean, you just said, of course. And that's exactly it. Yeah. But when we're in it, we kind of we forget that piece. So even though it is obvious, like, of course, you wouldn't know that it can sometimes feel like I should have the answer. I should know.
Katherine Hurtig
Why do we do that to ourselves?
Jennifer Grassie
I don't know why we do that. But, you know, there's comfort in knowing that it's like we all kind of sort of go there. Yeah. Sometimes.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. It is. It's a very common thought and feeling to have.
Jennifer Grassie
That’s right.
Katherine Hurtig
And I know it's definitely a very different experience for dads, but what can new dads do to kind of better support their own emotional well-being during this big life change?
Jennifer Grassie
Right. OK, well, fathers, like we were saying, you know, usually in my experience report, again, like we were saying that piece of like, hey, I'm responsible for this family. I need to provide if something goes wrong. It's all that, all those anxious thoughts and worries, which makes sense. So I'm trying to make sure when I'm speaking to them, you're validating that experience because it's coming from somewhere very real. But at the same time, I would, if I was to say something, I would say to them, you know, maybe challenge yourself, support yourself by not ignoring those feelings that are coming up as a first step, I guess. So acknowledging that you're feeling worried or stressed or experiencing some anxiety. And for some men, it's even low mood. Depression. So checking in with yourself as a first thing and then challenging yourself to not, I guess, underestimate that this is a huge transition and that if you're experiencing these new feelings and new doubts maybe that are coming up for you, that that is a part of all of this. And it's part of the transition. And it's OK to do that. So for me also is maybe encouraging them to talk about it. And that can be hard. Right. Especially with how if you're looking at it in a very binary way, men and women are socialized. Right. So for men, sometimes it's you hold it in. You figure it out. You don't talk about, Hey, I'm having some self-doubt here.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, and hopefully we're working towards changing that, but it is still very much ingrained.
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah, it is. There's been change and some shifts, but there's a lot of work to be done still in that area. Sometimes there's some guilt that men share the experience. Like when, when I say sometimes like, Hey, like, how are you taking care of yourself or taking time for yourself? It's like time for myself what even is that like how can I even explain that you know to even my spouse or partner or whatever that looks like.
Katherine Hurtig
Because they weren't the one to…
Jennifer Grassie
Exactly.
Katherine Hurtig
Carry the child
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah but guess what that's a very important piece and they need that as well yeah 100% they do and that might look like you know and it's different for everyone because everyone has different interest and ways of feeling, you know, relaxed or supported, you know, but for some, some men, it could be being active, right? So even just going out, going for a hike, going, or connecting with a friend. So keeping those close relationships if you have them, right?
Katherine Hurtig
Is that, is that common? Like, do you see that come up a lot where, where new dads are, they feel that, that guilt about taking time for themselves?
Jennifer Grassie
Yes, I do. And that's why I'm mentioning that because, you know, it's almost like a new challenging them to a new way. So it's reframing it, I guess, for themselves. Yeah. Because you want to show up 110 percent. This this can't be on the back burner. Yeah. This has to happen. You've got to prioritize this because sometimes you can't sustain that if you don't do that.
Katherine Hurtig
So I guess it's, yeah, it's just difficult because, I mean, we talk about balance a lot, right? It's, you know, we know that it's important to take care of ourselves, but we also have to be there for this new child. We have to bring in an income. We want to take care of our partner and that relationship. So, I mean, it must just feel really overwhelming to give attention to all of those pieces.
Jennifer Grassie
It is very overwhelming. And the reason I'm trying to say it like that is because I'm trying to validate that experience of it is an overwhelming experience.
Katherine Hurtig
And kind of so are you. Would you say like to just kind of like it's definitely easier said than done but accept that. Know that you're not going to get it right all the time, but you do your best anyway?
Jennifer Grassie
Absolutely. So just, you know, I always I say this sometimes is, hey, listen, if your buddy or your friend or your whoever, whoever it is that you have that's close to you or you consider close was to come up to you and share some of this experience with you, you know, what would you say to them? How would you try to say something that is supportive? And a lot of the time that flips the switch and it's like, well, I'd say you need to take some time away from the house. You need to take some time to yourself. Yeah. Let's go out for a coffee. Let's go. And so it's getting sometimes individuals out of their own experience. So not using ourselves as a reference point. Right. Yeah. And sometimes that's helpful.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, definitely. Again, having that conversation yesterday, we're for some reason so much harder on ourselves than we are with other people.
Jennifer Grassie
A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's ongoing.
Katherine Hurtig
So what are some signs that that new parents might be dealing with postpartum, you know, depression, anxiety, you know, something kind of bigger than just, you know, typical sadness and worry?
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah. Some signs can include not being able or wanting to bond with your baby. We talked a little bit about that and it being persistent. Right. So ongoing, crying too much, noticing these things. So just being aware that these things are happening either to yourself or your partner.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. And when you say too much, is it more like a more than usual?
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah. That's right. So more than usual when you notice, you know, because there's some folks that say I'm a crier. Right. Oh, I'm a crier. I tend to, but it's more like, you know, this is daily now. This is like every other hour. This is where you're noticing something has changed and shifted. So for me, it's trusting that, trusting what you're noticing in yourself or in your partner. Yeah. You know, so, so it's that it can be like, like we were saying, just depressed mood or some severe mood swings, loss of appetite or eating too much, right. More than usual for some, Some individuals, everyone is different. Not sleeping enough or sleeping too much, right? The other extreme, loss of energy, feeling like isolating. This is a really big one. Okay. And I just want to say, I think it's important too with this piece that we remind ourselves to be open to what others, like our trusted loved ones or friends or whatever that is, are sometimes sharing with us as concerns that they are noticing. Because sometimes others notice things that we don't. So just being open to that and just checking in and getting curious about that. Okay, that's interesting. Tell me more about why you think such and such. Even folks waiting too long. So I noticed I was starting to feel really low mood, you know, but I just kind of hung in there. I just thought, okay, this must be normal. So I, you know, week two, week three, that kind of. And then all of a sudden it's, it hits kind of like a crisis mode where it's like, I'm not getting out of bed. I'm not getting up to, you know, my partner's wondering why I'm not getting up to feed baby. Like, it's just more intense. Yeah.
Katherine Hurtig
If you're someone who has dealt with, you know, anxious feelings or depression in the past, is there anything you can be working on or doing before you have your baby to kind of set yourself up? So it is an easier transition? Does that make sense?
Jennifer Grassie
It does. It does make sense. For me, in this instance, it would be checking in and just getting curious about, hey, you know, what are my supports? What does that even look like to me or my partner? Right. And that can be friendships. It could be family, extended family, community support. Just checking in. What are they in this day? And if you notice, because everyone is different, some folks don't have that. And so it's even just acknowledging, you know, I'm noticing that I actually don't really have a huge support network. And then it would be, you know, what can I do to start to build and strengthen that for myself and my family? Yeah. So those kinds of reflections are really helpful. And also then I would say just reading. So resourcing yourself, doing some research. If you're finding that you might be worried about something or curious and you don't have the answer, perfect time. You have time to read and kind of organize, you know, beforehand.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Jennifer Grassie
And then again, being realistic, right? Like you're not, you can read all you want, like you're not going to have all the answers anyway, but it sometimes helps. It reduces some of that anxiety and worry.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, having some of that knowledge. Yeah, I get that.
Jennifer Grassie
It's familiar, right? Oh, I remember reading about this. Yeah, this is that thing they were talking about. Yeah. So it just feels it feels good.
Katherine Hurtig
Right. So having a child, that's a huge change in any relationship.
Jennifer Grassie
Big time.
Katherine Hurtig
In what ways can it affect a couple? And how can they keep their relationship strong throughout that process?
Jennifer Grassie
Right, this is a really important topic and piece. I would say, first of all, to just acknowledge and accept that there just is less time. Like there just is. Like you, you can't fit all the things in, like you have added responsibilities now. So maybe even just sitting with that and just saying, okay, this is going to be different.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, life looks a different now.
Jennifer Grassie
Very. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. So, you know, so that includes time for one another, right? You can't have the expect, I mean, you can have the expectation, but that's going to need to distress that, you know, we're going on date nights, Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, staying out till, you know, whatever it is, whatever it is, your routine is, I mean, that is going to change, you know? And so maybe just having those conversations beforehand. So maybe just, you know talking about hey how do you see us right forward because things are going to be different and being really honest and vulnerable with each other like that or challenging each other because some sometimes that's really difficult for individuals so I don't want to generalize like that's just something everyone knows how to do but to be prepared to have those real conversations um as a way to protect your relationship yeah right moving forward in a new way.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, you got to keep those communication lines open.
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah. And I just want to say at the end of the day, you know, you really are a team. Like it's, if you look at it like that, right. So we need to prioritize this because if we lose that connection and sometimes this happens, it happens actually regularly, right? Because sometimes you're preoccupied just with, you know, the concern and talk of baby and we forget our partners and each other and what that looks like. But remembering we're a team and this actually is really, really important. How are we going to prioritize us? Because if we are not connected, we're not going to, it links to me to support. I am not going to feel supported by my partner. It just goes hand in hand. We're not connected. We're not supporting. We're withdrawing.
Katherine Hurtig
Right.
Jennifer Grassie
And so that causes huge distress.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. I think in so many ways, it's important to, yeah, like you said, make that a priority. You know, I see with a lot of parents, the mindset is kind of like child comes number one over everything. But I think it's so important for, I mean, so many reasons to put in the work, to have a good relationship. I mean, down the road, too, I think it's so important for kids to see their parents in healthy relationships and see that model.
Jennifer Grassie
It is so important. But having said that, I want to say, you know, we learn through experience. And so I want to also say for parents who maybe are in it and you know what, I didn't think of this right now. We're kind of just, we're not connected. I'm feeling kind of, you know, separate from you. I'm feeling kind of isolated in this experience because that's what can happen. You know, you can work on that. So I want to make sure to say that is, you know, notice that that's happening. And then it's like, OK, what can we do to sort through this? You know, how can we bring back some of that connection into this relationship sooner than later? So. So, yeah. So I just want to make sure folks are hearing that.
Katherine Hurtig
So every relationship is going to have some hurdles at some point. I mean, and having a baby is definitely, you know, a new huge challenge. How could how can counselling potentially help a couple kind of move into the transition of being parents?
Jennifer Grassie
It can be hugely beneficial, I think, because it's a safe place to put things on the table. Right. And sometimes you need that, especially. And we don't know the level of connection that the couple is coming in into counselling with. And so it's, I think, helpful in the sense that it's a place that you're not being judged. It's unbiased. We're here to brainstorm, find some solutions together. And sometimes you already have the answers. And this is just a place for you to organize. And it's like there's someone in the middle kind of to facilitate that. And sometimes that's the piece that in my experience, couples have shared is really helpful, which is like, it's just, you know, I feel like I have the space. And if I don't, I don't have to worry about managing that. I'm just putting it on the table and then feeling like you can work through it in a quicker, smoother way.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Jennifer Grassie
And not in all cases too. Right. I, again, don't want to generalize.
Katherine Hurtig
For sure. Yeah. It's, I mean, again, like you said, it's different for everyone. Speaking from my own experience, my husband and I have gone through like little bouts of counselling in the past and we found it so beneficial. Like it wasn't anything big. It was just like kind of like a roadblock in communication. And yeah, talking to a counsellor, just like it helped us both open up so much.
Jennifer Grassie
So that’s so beautiful. And that's amazing. And I thank you for sharing that because sometimes, you know, there's individuals who are just they're open. They're they're kind of curious and they're just on the fence about counselling. And it's like, you know, you really don't have anything to lose.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, I think people really need to know, especially with couples counselling, like you don't have to come in when, you know, you're on the verge of splitting up. It's just about, you know, learning different tools to be together better.
Jennifer Grassie
It is. It is. Because we really are so different. And we also have different life experiences and childhoods and all of the things.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, and that influences so much of how we are as adults, for sure.
Jennifer Grassie
That’s right. I think what gets in the way sometimes with, and for me, like for all, right, I'm just saying is, you know, we are so focused with, you know, our own experience. Yeah. that we can't see past that into the experience of our partner. And so that's where counselling, I think, can be really helpful and beneficial. And I just want to say, because that kind of touches on something I wanted to mention, and it's that communication is key. And it really, if I could say anything, really, I encourage that that piece is prioritized. It is hugely important. So prioritizing time to listen to your partner, right? To listen to each other and each other's experience because you're, you know, experiencing similar things and you're also experiencing things in a very different way, as well.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, I think it's important for people to understand that because it's like you're going through the same thing, but internalizing it potentially completely differently.
Jennifer Grassie
That’s right.
Katherine Hurtig
You see the same scenario in a different way from your partner.
Jennifer Grassie
That's right. And then in the case of like this new experience as parents, it's and you're sleep deprived and all of like the list of all the new things. On top of that. So making sure to mention that. So and also, again, I just want to say, you know, I don't think that, you know, parents talk about that piece enough. I think that when someone is, you know, expecting and oh, we're so excited because it is joyful and exciting. But then it's like, OK, yeah, it is. And it's wonderful. And we're talking about all the things to look forward to, you know, all the celebrations and all of it. And then there's like, oh, and hey, we should also talk about, you know, in my experience, like I felt really sad for like the first month and a half. Yeah. After giving birth. And there was also like this feeling of like overwhelm. And I couldn't shake that till about like three and a half months. I remember it clearly. Like those conversations.
Katherine Hurtig
Exactly.
Jennifer Grassie
Where then, you know, someone who has an experience that can say, okay, tell me more about that. Because that's not on their radar yeah right so
Katherine Hurtig
And that would give them a better understanding.
Jennifer Grassie
yeah like it's this and there's this piece too there's both you know so it's not it's it would just give a chance to have the awareness to for it not to be such a shock if it happens to them because most likely it will.
Katherine Hurtig
Is that what we mean when we say you know prioritizing communication. Like it's not just how was your day? What do you want to watch on TV? It's getting into these, like, this is what I'm excited about. This is what I'm struggling with.
Jennifer Grassie
Yes, it is. So it isn't, I'm going to say surface level, you know, like, you know, cause, cause you know, your, your partner comes home, whoever it is, right. If your partner comes home, you're exhausted. It's been a long day for you. It's been a long day for them. It's like, what's coming next. So you're just like, hey, how was your day? It was great. Yours? Lots to tell you. And then you don't have the conversations. Like, you know what? I'm really struggling. Like I am so exhausted right now. I could just, I could just cry right now. And then like, whoever it is on the other side, holding that space and just being like, oh, like, do you need to talk about it? So prioritizing in that you probably don't want to be doing that right when you get home from, you know, but because you are choosing to be active in the process and prioritize, you're going to take that time to check in. So it's those conversations.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. And it just reinforces your, you know, your connection and your, I don't want to say commitment to each other. Cause that sounds so, but you know, you…
Jennifer Grassie
Can I say what I'm, when you said that, what came to me was like the feeling of like, I'm not alone in this experience.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Jennifer Grassie
It's that. It's like, there's no solution perhaps, right? Because you're going to do it again the next day. Yeah. But it's like, yeah, that's it. Yeah. That's what's going on. Okay.
Katherine Hurtig
Being validated.
Jennifer Grassie
You got it. Being heard, right? It's that…
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. I like what you said there. It's not always a problem to be solved, but it's just an experience to really share together, even when it's messy.
Jennifer Grassie
That's right. Yeah, that's right. Because it is messy. And I say that because we don't talk about that enough. Right. And oftentimes it's that comparison thing. You know, it's a big it's a big deal. Like, OK, well, you know, the neighbors over there and like my cousin and my aunt and like I don't remember them struggling like this. Right. They're always so put together. And it's like, you know what? Like, yeah, maybe on the day you saw them. Right. And then it's like, but I guarantee that there was all that messiness and all of that other stuff. So for me, also, if I could say, I would just encourage if possible to just be aware of when you are comparing and to just remind yourself because we all do it, right? But it's when you have the awareness, you notice when you're doing it and it's just checking in and saying, okay, like that is not helping. That's not useful.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. We’re only seeing like this one moment.
Jennifer Grassie
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Moment in time.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. And comparison happens so much when it comes to parenting.
Jennifer Grassie
That's right.
b
So much.
Jennifer Grassie
That’s right. Well, you know, it, yeah, it does. And it just generally, and then, and then imagine, you know, for someone maybe who struggles with that, just, just individually on their own. And then now it's compounded by now and now I'm a parent. Right. And now there's this added piece to. So it can be a lot. It can be very overwhelming.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. We emphasize how important it is to, to stay connected with your partner. So what are, what are some practical ways that, that new parents can, can stay close and keep their bonds strong after their baby arrives?
Jennifer Grassie
Right. So I would say, you know, just having the conversation of like, Hey, listen, how are we going to communicate? Like, how are we going to check in? And then it's not just that it's like, what does check in mean to you? And what does that mean to me? Right? So just getting really specific with each other, because we are not mind readers, neither one is a mind reader. Right? And so sometimes just when we because we're human beings, right? When we go to the like, how do you not know, like, that I am like that I have zero out of 10 right now? And it's like, hold on. Well, they obviously don't know. And so I need to, I need to say the thing. I need to say, Hey, today I'm at a zero out of 10. And, and just have those conversations with each other. So remembering that would be my first thing. We're not mind readers. We're going to have to clarify.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. That was something we went through in counselling where it's like, you just kind of assume like, hey, he, he's got to know that this is how I feel about this. And this is what I think. And really just realizing that, no, he didn't assume that and it was not mind-blowing it was just it was a really it was a great revelation.
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah.
Katherine Hurtig
And put things into perspective.
Jennifer Grassie
Can I say this, and also when we have those moments when we're realizing we're doing the same thing and it's like oh and I'm totally guilty of that you know right so it's like okay so grace for each other and it's like okay I'm experiencing this in this way and I gotta accept you're experiencing it in your own way and let's just be open to talking about it, but also to add to what you had asked is, you gotta schedule this in sometimes. You do, you just do, “yeah let's talk about that just real quick”, is you know if you're waiting for these conversations to just magically flow into your day like highly unlikely right because you're so busy, you're so tired, there's always something else, there's demands, so for me it's chatting about “hey listen, when do you want to have like, when can we leave some time to just check in, like really check in right like a half hour, even where we're just talking about the things and then agreeing to that and scheduling that in.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, yeah I think that's such a good idea. I mean like those check-ins or you know quality time together, I mean it might not be sexy, but sometimes you've got to you've got to schedule it because it's important.
Jennifer Grassie
You got it, and you're right, but that's the thing is it isn't it isn't ideal, but it's like, remember when, so when we're managing expectations with this new experience, that's part of it, is you know what, like I'm just gonna accept that if we don't put this in our calendar, we're not going to do it. And it's not even because we don't want to, and sometimes it is because we don't want to, but it's because we're busy and we're tired and if you were to ask me when I had just given birth and all of that if I wanted to check in or could we leave it for the next day, I would have been like I'd rather sleep, so it's like that's the active piece you're committed, to then showing up for the conversation right, that's the whole point, and at the end you will you know, hopefully find that you managed to build and even grow that connection moving forward. And so, what you were saying earlier is, that's going to allow you to show up differently for your family and your kids.
Katherine Hurtig
Exactly.
Jennifer Grassie
And then the kids are going to eventually experience the piece where you know this is hard times are hard maybe but you know mom and dad are they're talking about it you know things are being put on the table we're going to work through this so and that's for you know because some parents who struggle I want to say this too before I forget is this isn't just for new parents.
Katherine Hurtig
It’s something you can take and kind of, I don't want to put words in your mouth, model for your kids as they grow up.
Jennifer Grassie
That’s exactly it. And also, I want to say like this overwhelm that we're talking about and all of the things that is something that parents experience at different stages and phases of the parent journey. So you really are not alone in that. You can, it's relatable. I get it. I've been there or even like, you have this to look forward to because it just changes depending on the stage that your kiddos are at. The worries are different, but there's, you're familiar, you know, and also you're building confidence. Like, you know what? I got this. I can do this. I've done it. And, and, and, and when I haven't known, we know how to figure out. So there’s comfort in that too.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, definitely. So we talked about this a bit in the beginning and kind of more specifically around, around dads, but I mean, either parent, what are, I mean, self-care is always an important thing. Um, but how, you know, what are some ways that new parents can, can carve out time and can practice self-care, you know, even when it feels like there is no time.
Jennifer Grassie
Right. Okay. So I want to start by saying that, so I'm going to validate that experience right away. Okay. For anyone, which is it feels like there is no time because there really is no time. Like that's just right. You're up, you're feeding, you're this, you're that, you're changing. So just wanting to just for a second say like, yes, like that is true and it's valid. And then the piece of like, if we're not taking care of ourselves, we can't fully care for anyone else. We just cannot show up in the same way. So especially with parenting, I try to reframe it like because there can be guilt. You know, you hear about mom guilt or and it goes both ways. I don't really like that term because, you know, parents in general, right? Mom, dad, whatever it is. But you can feel guilty about taking time. And like you had said really early on in the conversation, like I am it and I have to do all the things. Like the kid is the sole focal point. And the reality is, is you are just as important, if not more important. I'm actually going to say that because if you are not OK, then how can your baby be OK?
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Jennifer Grassie
Right. Think about it if we think about it that way. And so it's like, OK, I need to practice taking care of myself here. And yeah, we call it self-care. I personally like to say like self-love because it just feels differently to me personally. But really what we're talking about is just, hey, checking in, what do I need today? Where am I at on a scale of one to 10?
Katherine Hurtig
And probably being realistic with those expectations, too. I had a great conversation with one of our former clients a little while ago, like about her experience kind of becoming a mom. And you know it's not gonna always be a full day of relaxation and rest, but it's taking what you can, and she you know would take an hour to herself to like even just rest in her car before she picked up her daughter, and she noticed that that like that was kind of a game changer and really helped um her feel more rested and prepared to take care of her kids.
Jennifer Grassie
I love that because that's exactly it. And it's such an important point. And it's, this is the beauty about this is you get to decide what that's going to look like for you. And so you get to choose that for some folks, it might be, you know, I'm going to make sure I'm enjoying my tea, in the morning, one at night, when to settle, it could be what you just said, taking space in the vehicle, if that's what it takes, if that's the only place for some folks, it might be, I am going to get up extra early because I want that hour of just me time. And for others, it's I'm going to stay up later than everyone for an hour because I want that time.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, figuring out what works for you.
Jennifer Grassie
You got it – what works for you. And then what you said, which is it isn't, you know, a spa day every day type of it. That's not what we're talking about. We're being realistic. So it could just be like, hey, with your partner, for example, in the case of a newborn, it's really important. And I look forward to when you get home. And I know you're tired too. And I get that. But we need to negotiate here. I really need that. So getting more comfortable at practicing speaking about what you need.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. Right.
Jennifer Grassie
Because that's a thing too.
Katherine Hurtig
Totally.
Jennifer Grassie
It's new for a lot of people.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah. And that can be hard for sure.
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah. So it's leaning into that. Just as long as you're practicing, taking it easy, taking it slow. And just maybe an example I can give is that is maybe saying to your partner, Hey, listen, I'd like to take even 30 minutes just to do whatever it is I need to do when you get home or an hour or whatever it is. It's those things because it's in the day to day. Right. It's the things in the day to day that are going to make all the difference. And so that is taking care of yourself. So I'm glad you brought that up. It really can look really different depending on what your preference is or even what your family's schedule is.
Katherine Hurtig
Exactly. How can new parents kind of manage that exhaustion that comes with that, you know, being sleep deprived and constantly changing, you know, their routine instead of?
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah. I would say for those who, you know, are fortunate, like who have maybe someone, because I want to also acknowledge that, you know, there's some individuals who are doing this on their own.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, of course.
Jennifer Grassie
So I'm just fully also acknowledging that. And that is amazing. And wow. To anyone who is doing that. And also, you know, I've noticed that when we're chatting about this, we're also including that piece of like a partner and a partner. And I know that that isn't always the case. But, you know, in this case with the with the sleep pieces, if you're fortunate enough to have someone around, it would be like, hey, let's tag team here. So setting up a sleep schedule, even like, you know, maybe or, you know, negotiating is going to be a big thing that you're even hopefully you'll get good at. you know okay how are we going to do the feedings, right, for those who maybe are able to feed through a bottle maybe, it's your partner does the morning because they're a morning person you know whatever it is so having the conversations how are we going to do this together so that it's helping me to get some rest yeah right and also maybe you're also feeling like engaged in a part of it because sometimes there is a partner who might feel left out. So it's important to remind yourself there are other things that the other partner can do to help.
Katherine Hurtig
Of course, yeah.
Jennifer Grassie
So just having those conversations and figuring out what those things can be so that you can have some downtime. Ask for that help. Like if you have someone you trust, whether it's a good friend or family, you know, if and something else that has come up is some new parents are not comfortable stepping away from their baby right away. Like it's very anxiety inducing. So, you know, sometimes it's like the compromise. What about if someone was in your home? So in your space. So that's why I said someone who's trusted, right? And maybe it can look like even an hour for you to rest. And they're looking over your little one. But you're in the same house. So it's not like you got to leave for four hours or anything like that. Like as a start, I think that's maybe a good tip to try and or even consider.
Katherine Hurtig
Anything, any last thing that you want to leave our listeners with? Anything we haven't gone over?
Jennifer Grassie
Yes. I want to maybe just say, and I'm just touching on this, is just remind everyone to just be kind to themselves. That's just a reminder because we forget about ourselves sometimes, whether you're mom, dad, whatever caregiver, to just be kind to yourself. And what that means is allow yourself to slow down if you need to. Allow yourself to take time just for you. All of those pieces we talked about with love and grace for yourself. And just maybe as a last note is remembering that parenthood is the one thing I think that nobody gets 100% right. So, managing that expectation
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, go in knowing that.
Jennifer Grassie
Go in knowing that is like, okay, right.
Katherine Hurtig
Expect, you know, a bit of, I don't want to say failure. Expect, um, expect the ups and downs.
Jennifer Grassie
Yeah. Like there's, it's going to ebb and it's going to flow. Yeah. That's, that's exactly it.
Katherine Hurtig
Thank you so much. This has been amazing.
Jennifer Grassie
Thank you for having me.
Katherine Hurtig
It's clear that the early days of parenthood come with unique challenges and it's important for parents to recognize that they're not alone in facing them.
We're now going to hear from one of our clients. Chloe came to Calgary Counselling Centre after experiencing postpartum depression and feelings of anger that began to impact her relationships through individual and group counselling, she found new ways to navigate the ups and downs of parenthood and learn skills to proactively manage the stress of being a mom. Here's her story.
Chloe
My name's Chloe. I work in the engagement area of the non-profit sector and I've been doing that kind of work for as long as I can remember. I have three boys. I have a dog. I like to volunteer so that's just a little bit about me.
Katherine Hurtig
Excellent. How old are your boys?
Chloe
I have a nine-year-old and then twin two-year-old boys.
Katherine Hurtig
Wow. So that keeps you busy.
Chloe
Yes. We'll probably get into that later, but yes, it does.
Katherine Hurtig
So Chloe, what, uh, what brought you to Calgary Counselling Centre? What made you want to, want to reach out for counselling?
Chloe
Well, I had too many children. That's essentially what happened. So, um, I'm pretty sure after the birth of my first child, I did have postpartum, but for a bunch of different reasons, nothing happened with that. But with having twins and my life completely turned upside down in terms of, I had some, some, you know, physical complications to that. I had some relational changes in terms of my relationship with my oldest child as a result of suddenly having two new babies in the house. I was not getting sleep. I suddenly had a lot of body issues because my body had completely changed in a way I didn't recognize. And then, of course, just lifestyle, the freedom that you maybe once had or were starting to gain back, you're completely, not to say it in a negative way, but started back at square one. So I think it got to the point where, you know, lack of sleep, high stress, no control over anything. And eventually that was starting to manifest itself in, to be honest, a lot of anger.
Katherine Hurtig
I mean, kids, they just they change your life completely. And I can imagine two infants at the same time. That's, yeah, that's a giant change.
Chloe
For sure. And I think also, and I'm sure some parents of more than one child in general can empathize with this. When you have child's of differing needs and wants in such a big age range as well, you're quite pulled in very different places and different mind spaces. And I remember, you know, you hear that very stereotypical saying from parents, I can't even hear myself think. That's literally how it feels. Yeah, that's literally how it feels. Like you're just paralyzed. Analysis, paralysis, can't make decisions. People getting angry at you because you're not fast enough or doing the right thing.
Katherine Hurtig
And so your first son was seven when you had your twins?
Chloe
Yeah. And at the same time, I've been working full -time which I love, I love work, it definitely fills my bucket but it is also another time-consuming energy consuming thing right, so when you're done at the end of the day, you just move on to your other full-time job which is your family.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah, so, you felt yourself kind of starting to become angry? Is that what was like the red flag? Like, hey, I might need some help here?
Chloe
I think it was to the point where I didn't feel like myself anymore. Yeah. Like I'd always thought of myself as a very laid back, easygoing, down-to-earth person who could maybe see the positivity in things or be able to feel really resilient. And that was the opposite of how I was feeling. I was feeling more and more, of course, irritable, feeling helpless, feeling out of control. And I noticed that my fuse was a lot shorter. Like I would just suddenly get angry. I thought I'd be fine. And then suddenly I wasn't angry. And of course, after getting some support from Calgary Counselling Centre, I realized, well, it wasn't just out of nowhere. And so I got some support to be able to see those signs better. I think I definitely got the one-on-one tailored support that helped me. And thankfully, my counsellor was able to, towards the end of our journey, say, hey, you know, I see this additional group work that might be beneficial for you if you're interested. So I think it went exactly how it was supposed to go.
Katherine Hurtig
What kinds of things did you work on with your counsellor? Can you remember like, you know, certain pieces of homework or anything that really resonated with you that really helped you out?
Chloe
Well, we definitely talked a lot about expectations, and my self-imposed expectations, and how that can sometimes create enough rigidity that there's no room for anything else. And I say expectations on myself in terms of how I should be expressing my emotions, how when I'm upset or how I should be able to deal with my stress. Right. Supposed to just suck it up and just keep going because you don't have time for that. We also talked a lot about and did homework around, I really appreciated this one, It was, you know, of course, you have your moments where you just react. And then before that would be warning signs. But the analogy I was given, which I found really helpful was, let's say even before the strategies you're seeing to stop the bleeding before it happened, like as it's happening, what even before that, what kind of preventative stuff can you do before you even notice that you're starting to feel angry or irritable or tired? And that was a big eye opener for me because I'd always maybe in my professional work and also personal, I'd always I'd never seen that additional preventative layer before. And that was actually really helpful for me because then I've noticed it has started to help me even getting to a mind space where I'm like, oh, I'm tired, I'm stressed, I need to do something. It's helped me.
Katherine Hurtig
A bit more proactive than reactive.
Chloe
Yes, exactly.
Katherine Hurtig
What kind of support did you have like after the birth of your kids, you know, while you were going through that and also like during the counselling process?
Chloe
I'm very lucky to have my partner and my parents specifically. You know, of course, there's that saying it takes a village, and definitely with this big a family that I have now, which I'm sure is not the biggest families out there, but it feels big to me. And it's very much a matter of survival and getting through each day. And really being a lot more direct about asking people for help. Of course, I know I've heard that a lot for people who have had children for the first time and being reminded, ask for help. It's OK. But then that difficulty, I didn't have the luxury of that at all this time around. I said, well, if I'm going to make it through this alive, I need help. And thankfully, my partner and parents were very supportive, of course, in terms of the realms of childcare, but also being able to debrief about things that I've learned in counselling or in my group work.
Katherine Hurtig
Amazing.
Chloe
Maybe even feedback, either appreciative or developmental in terms of how they see the work going. I think without them, I don't think I would have made that step because I think that, and I think this is one of the questions that have come earlier is I was starting to notice how I was reacting towards my family and they're my most important part of my life. So they were definitely a really important feedback loop for me for getting help. And they've been a really huge piece of being able to go through this journey effectively.
Katherine Hurtig
How was your life kind of being affected by what you were going through?
Chloe
I would say very much a general quality of life had gone down. I know that having a family, having children, and maybe trying to juggle that with full-time work or life already has a very chaotic effect and can really shock people in terms of the, like I had mentioned earlier, the lack of sleep or the lack to have a shower or, or, you know what I mean? Running from one thing to another. Like, I know it's already a jarring experience, but this felt very different in terms of, it was a constant daily waking up of like dread. Like I can't, I can't do another day of this. And by the end I'd be like, oh, it's over. And then I'll wake up again and say, oh my gosh, I can't do this again. So it was definitely, and I had mentioned before, I was a person I didn't like or recognize at that point. All the good things I liked about myself weren't there. So it was really a matter of, OK, there's something that needs to change here. This is not sustainable in any way. And I think I had mentioned also earlier it was affecting my relationships in terms of how present or engaged I was. So I think that that's kind of in ways that had affected my life overall. I am very grateful for the self-awareness that had come from this counselling work. And it had definitely, I'm sure you hear like the analogy opened up a can of worms, right? Where it suddenly unveiled areas that I needed to pay more attention to versus just this general sense of foreboding and dread. It was, okay, there's actual things going on here that need attention.
Katherine Hurtig
Do you have examples of that?
Chloe
Sure. Like, for example, I think that big one was that example I mentioned earlier where it's not enough to just go and take a break or go take a breath when you're really stressed. It's what is happening even before that.
Katherine Hurtig
Yeah.
Chloe
That is causing you to get to that point. Yes, it is great to ask someone to take over, ask for help for someone in that direct moment. But what about in the long term? It was I had to look more at me for example. In this example, I had to look more at my life. What is missing now? What do I actually have to make time for in terms of either my own self-improvement work or things I have to put in place for self-care or ways, I need to change my relationships with people so that it's not just me depleting my energy, but getting my energy back, so that's some examples of that and then of course was when my counsellor had suggested, hey, you might find the Building Esteem piece group work beneficial. It was because it became very apparent, these esteem issues, which I had not ever attributed it to esteem. So that was a huge thing that became very prevalent. And then it unpacked a lot of things that I was like, okay, now that I'm aware of them, that's great. It gives them a name, but I can't just sit with that. I have to do something about it.
Katherine Hurtig
Chloe, what did you find the most helpful about your sessions, whether individual or group? You know, was it, you know, a certain way that a counsellor explained something or a certain task you were given? What really was most helpful to you?
Chloe
I think for both was being given a space for honesty and exploration, whether that was one-on-one as a counsellor being able to openly express something and it being validated and asking clarifying questions. So that space, but then also for the building esteem group, we had opportunities to go into breakout groups and discuss things more one-on-one. So again, that ability to be candid and then maybe that, if appropriate, mutual sharing of feelings and challenges and things like that. So I think having that dedicated, open, nonjudgmental space to express and possibly have connection with someone else.
Katherine Hurtig
Chloe, do you have any advice for anyone who might be in the same position that you were in? Anyone who's going through those same thoughts and feelings?
Chloe
I think if I could say one thing is it's worth it. Doing the work and getting the help is worth it. As painful as it can feel, as vulnerable and scary as it can feel, as long as it feels it's taking, it feels like it's taking, it is worth it. in the end. And I had a mini epiphany while I was talking to you and I was saying, if I had not done all the work I'd done now, and I had just kept trying to use my own likely ineffective strategies of like, I'm going to fix this by myself and I'll just fix it all in my head. Which is where the problem is originating. I would be in a way worse place. And I'm so glad that it's never, it's not time wasted. It's worth it.
Katherine Hurtig
You've been listening to Living Fully. Thank you for tuning in. This episode was produced by Luiza Campos, Manuel Montano, Jenna Forbes, and by me, Katherine Hurtig. A special thanks to Jennifer Grassie and Chloe.
To stay up to date on our latest episodes, be sure to subscribe. We're available in your favorite podcast app. Living Fully is a production of Calgary Counselling Centre and recorded in Calgary on Treaty 7 territory. Living Fully podcast is not a substitute or alternative for professional care or treatment. Calgary Counselling Centre and Counselling Alberta provide effective counselling for anyone in Alberta with no waitlist and no financial barriers. Find us online at calgarycounselling.com or counsellingalberta.com. For help across Canada and the United States, call 211. If you are outside of Canada and the U.S., seek help from your general medical practitioner.